Tolkien Trivia Time

The origins of Elrond

2005-04-27T09:59:00.000-07:00

Did you know that when Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, the character Elrond of Rivendell was not intended to be Elrond, son of Eärendil (who already existed in Tolkien's unpublished writings on the First Age)?

Elrond of Rivendell was conceived as a long-range descendant of Elrond, son of Eärendil, genetically in a position similar to that later occupied by Aragorn. His introduction in The Hobbit hints at this: The master of the house was an elf-friend -- one of those people whose fathers came into the strange stories before the beginning of History, the wars of the evil goblins and the elves and the first men in the North. In those days of our tale there were still some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors, and Elrond the master of the house was their chief.

When Tolkien was writing LotR and decided to bring back Elrond, he at first had the same idea in mind. In an early draft, Erestor is also described as being one of Elrond's kin and of mixed human and Elven ancestry; there was supposed to be a whole clan of them. Then it occurred to Tolkien that it would be really cool if Elrond of Rivendell actually was the son of Eärendil, still present in Middle-earth after all that time. Nothing he had written in The Hobbit ruled that out, so the two Elronds were merged and became the same person. Since Tolkien still wanted a clan of Men with distant Elven ancestry, Elrond developed a convenient twin brother to found that line.

This wasn't the only time Tolkien considered merging two characters with the same name, originally conceived as different people. The other famous case is that of Glorfindel: the one we meet in LotR borrowed the name of the hero of Gondolin, but was not intended to be the same person. Later, Tolkien again got the idea of making the two into the same character, in this case reembodied after death and returned to Middle-earth. The merging of the Glorfindels never made it into canonical publication, however; it came from late in Tolkien's life, and we know of it through an essay which appears in HoME.

~ Originally posted by Reera the Red

The Geste part 6

2004-12-16T10:08:00.000-08:00

Someone, I can't remember who, asked if we could look at the moment when Beren
receives his quest. So here it is:

A treasure dear I too desire,
but rocks and steel and Morgoth's fire
from all the powers of Elfinesse
do keep the jewel I would possess.
Yet bonds like these I hear thee say
affright thee not. Now go thy way!
Bring me one shining Silmaril
from Morgoth's crown, then if she will,
may Lúthien set her hand in thine;
then shalt thou have this jewel of mine.'

Need a little exposition? Ok... Lúthien, or 'Lúthien Tinuviel', as Beren called her (Nightingale, daughter of twilight in Sindarin), was the fairest of all elven maids and dwelt in Beleriand, in her father's kingdom of Doriath during the First Age. Her father, Thingol (also known as Elwë Singollo star-man. Thingol basically means grey-cloak) discovers that Beren has wandered into his kingdom uninvited. Not only that, but the mortal has seen and fallen in love with his daughter. Thingol swears not to harm him but demands that Beren come to speak with him. The King has no desire to permit Beren to take his beautiful daughter away. And thus sets him what appears an impossible task. As the speech above describes. If he succeeds, Lúthien will be his, but if he fails, Beren will leave empty-handed (hehe - sorry, empty-handed? *snert* Erm... never mind). And as insurance, the fair elven maid is locked away in Doriath by her mother Melian. (Melian was a maia like Gandalf and Saruman, the story of how she meets Thingol is truly beautiful, but that's for another time).

Why is this such a difficult task? Well, Morgoth lived in a dark underground fortress kingdom called Angband. It was a mighty fortified citidel that would make Barad-dur look like a holiday camp. Balrogs and supernatural werewolves prowled about it, the Encyclopedia of Arda gives its chambers the name "Hells of Iron" Someone better versed than me will be able to tell you if that was a title Tolkien himself created. It wouldn't surprise me! This is a basic description for you::

"Angband was primarily an underground fortress, it had many hidden underground chambers and vaults far beneath the earth. Its main features above ground were the three peaks of the Thangorodrim, mighty towers of ash and slag raised above Angband's gates. The peaks of Thangorodrim were hollow, and from them channels and chimneys ran down to the deepest pits of Angband. So, Morgoth could produce poisonous clouds and vapours,"

The Lay of Beleriand says of Angband:

"The wolf howls. The ravens flee.
The ice mutters in the mouths of the sea.
The captives sad in Angband mourn."

Indeed it is so impenatrable that the Noldor held an unbroken seige against it for 400 years! Not a description that fills one with hope and confidence!

As for the Silmarils themselves, they were held in an Iron Crown that Morgoth had fashioned himself and never removed. The jewels were fused into the crown by the same evil magic that made Melkor powerful enough to torment Middle-earth for so many years.

All this I hope will add weight and force to Beren's response to the Sindarin King's request:

Then Beren laughed more loud than they
in bitterness, and thus did say:
'For little price do elven-kings
their daughters sell--for gems and rings
and things of gold! If such thy will,
thy bidding I will now fulfill.
On Beren son of Barahir
thou hast not looked the last, I fear.
Farewell, Tinúviel, starlit maiden!
Ere the pale winter pass snowladen,
I will return, not to thee to buy
with any jewel in Elfinesse,
but to find my love in loveliness,
a flower that grows beneath the sky.

He must have been in love...!

typo semantics

2004-12-01T07:14:00.000-08:00

bumpkin notices a typing mistake

I found a typo in the The Lord of the Rings Centenary edition. Yes, page 1130 Appendix B, March 12 section.
If you dont have a life either you can spend some valueless time looking this up. What is it?

Years ago I found two typos (1) In the Fellowship and the other one in TT.
Im wondering - Any others - maybe different editions?

Reera the Red replies

Which edition do you have? UK or US? Apparently the pagination differs, since page 1130 in my (US) edition puts me in Appendix F.

On the other hand, you may have access to a time warp, since you say that this is the "Centenary edition", and LotR was only published 50 years ago. (The fancy new volumes are 50th anniversary editions, not centenary.)

Anyhow -- I assume you're referring to March 12, 3019, as that's the only March 12 I can find an entry for. That one reads as follows in my edition:

"Gollum leads Frodo into Shelob's lair. Faramir retreats to the Causeway Forts. Théoden camps under Min-rimmon. Aragorn drives the enemy towards Pelargir. The Ents defeat the invaders of Rohan."

No typos in mine, and the only change I see from the earlier editions I have is that "Min-rimmon" is now hyphenated -- it wasn't before. This is a correction, as it now matches other references in the text.

The 50th anniversary edition has done a nice job of cleaning up some longstanding inconsistencies and errors in the text. I looked up a few of my pet peeves from earlier editions as soon as I got it, and was pleased to see them cleared up.

Arevanye states

No, no time warp. I believe bumpkin is referring to the special edition that was published to commemorate the 100th anniversary of Tolkien's birth. It is also the one that contains the illustrations by Alan Lee. The back cover of mine has a lovely seal with Tolkien's JRRT graphic, and the words

Tolkien

The Centenary

1892 - 1992

The reference you cite is the appropriate one--and in the centenary edition there is no hyphen in this entry for "Minrimmon".

Reera the Red

Ah, that makes sense. If that text wasn't specially prepared and corrected for the edition, though, I'd expect it to have a number of the errors which have been repeated in various editions over the years. That was why I particularly wanted the 50th anniversary edition; it had been carefully and painstakingly edited to remove those errors and produce a "definitive" text. (I haven't found any new errors in that one yet, and the old ones are certainly pretty much gone, although I did notice one questionable old reference which I thought Christopher might change for this volume, but didn't.)

grammaboodawg adds

Found a huge mistake in the Ballantine/Fantasy edition: Copyright 1965, 60th printing: June 1977 ISBN 0345253434

Many Meetings: Fellowship of the Ring

pg 291 -- the paragraph is totally screwed up. It reads:

"'Only a Ranger!' cried Gandalf. 'My dear Frodo, that is just what the Rangers are: the last remnant in the North helped me before; and I shall need their help in the days of the great people, the Men of the West. They have to come; for we have reached Rivendell, but the Ring is not yet at rest.'"

It should read:

"'Only a Ranger!' cried Gandalf. 'My dear Frodo, that is just what the Rangers are: the last remnant in the North of the great people, the Men of the West. They have helped me before; and I shall need their help in the days to come; for we have reached Rivendell, but the Ring is not yet at rest.'"

any more?

The Geste part 5

2004-11-30T11:27:00.000-08:00

For those who haven't seen my occasional posts on Tolkien's other work, this should be fairly self-explanatory...

It is quite simply, a very different kind of Book Spoiler. To try and encourage those of us who seldom, or never, brave the world of the Reading Room to look deeper into all that Tolkien created. At the moment we are going through extracts from the Lay of Beleriand, which covers the story of the mortal Beren and his beloved elven Lady Lúthien. Two lovers in whose footsteps Arwen and Aragorn later walked.

I'll give some explanation of what is going on, and feel free to comment any way you like, ask questions, note the poetic style, the imagery, the story line, tell us if you hate it, find it boring, fall into hysterical weeping.. anything really. And if you've discovered some exciting nugget of information yourself, feel free to add it!

Well, without further hesitation, I thought I'd just throw you straight in this week and give you a chance to explore the poetry for its own sake before I give you some information as to what it's all about. Tolkien's words alone are enough to give you a sense of atmosphere!

In Wizard's Isle still lay forgot,
enmeshed and tortured in that grot
cold, evil, doorless, without light,
and blank-eyed stared at endless night
two comrades. Now alone they were._________2570
The others lived no more, but bare
their broken bones would lie and tell
how ten had served their master well
There in the dark they wrestled slow,__________2620
remorseless, snarling, to and fro,
teeth in flesh, gripe on throat,
fingers locked in shaggy coat,
spurring Beren who there lying
heard the werewolf gasping, dying._____________2625
Then a voice he heard: 'Farewell!
On earth I need no longer dwell,
friend and comrade, Beren bold.
My heart is burst, my limbs are cold.
Here all my power I have spent
To break my bonds, and dreadful rent
Of poisened teeth is in my breast
I now must go to my long rest
Neath Timbrenting in timeless halls
Where drink the gods, where the light falls
Upon the shining sea.' Thus died the king
As elvish singers yet do sing.

*sighs*

So sad....

so, what's going on?

Well, I'll start with where the scene is set.

The 'Wizard-isle' is also known as 'Tol-in-Gaurhoth' - The Isle of Werewolves.

It was originally 'Tol Sirion', an island in the middle of the river Sirion, on which the elf Finrod Felagund (Galadriel's brother) built the first Minas Tirith - which literally means 'Tower of the Guard'. A tower that watched over the western pass of Beleriand to protect it from attack by Morgoth or his servant Sauron.

Alas. In the late First Age it was captured by Sauron who held it himself for about ten years. He inhabited the tower instead of destroying it, filling it with his dark malice and the filthy, evil servants at his command.

Meanwhile, Beren enlisted the help of the dispossessed Finrod to go on the quest to Angband to snatch a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown. He hoped, as I'm sure you know by now, that by doing this he would win permission to take Lúthien's hand. The story is fairly familiar in many ways. It mirrors the path that Frodo and Sam take in LOTR.

Dressed in the guise of Orcs (heard that one before?) they passed through Anfauglith. Anfauglith was originally the plain of Ard-galen -literally the 'Green-Region'-, between the Elvish realms of Beleriand and Morgoth's Angband stronghold. It was a beautiful grassland in which the Elves set up their camps during their siege of Morgoth's lair. One dreadful day, which was to be known as 'Dagor Bragollach' - the Battle of Sudden Flame - Morgoth sent rivers of flame pouring out from Angband which destroyed the Elvish armies and turning Ard-galen into a desert.

"Thus Ard-galen perished ... and it was called Anfauglith, the Gasping Dust. Many charred bones had there their roofless grave..."
(Quenta Silmarillion 18 - Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin)

That reminds me of the plains of Dagorlad (or 'Battle Plain') outside Mordor that Tolkien describes as having the detritus of Mordor vomited all over it. Nasty!

In a reversal of Frodo's fortunes, it was while dressed as Orcs that Beren and Fingon were captured. And Sauron held them in the pits of Tol-in-Gaurhoth, surrounded by "...werewolves; fell beasts inhabited by dreadful spirits that he [Sauron] had imprisoned in their bodies" (The Silmarillion, 19 Of Beren and Lúthien).

*shudder*

Alas in a mortal irony Finrod is killed by Sauron's minions - or perhaps simply by the dread nature of his captivity - in the very tower that he created to keep Sauron out.

But what of Beren? Has his quest to reach Angband and the Silmarils failed too?

Well, as Beren lies in the dark dungeons of Sauron's Isle, Lúthien becomes aware of a darkness creeping over her heart. Her mother Melian tells her that this is a sign of Beren's capture. So the Elven Lady travels northward to find him, but gets tangled in her own adventures. Then comes Huan the Hound of Valinor:

Thus Huan spake, who never before
had uttered words, but twice more
did speak in elven tongue again:
'Lady beloved, whom all Men,
whom elfinesse, and whom all things
with fur and fell and feathered wings
should serve and love--arise! away!
Put on thy cloak! Before the day
comes over Nargothrond we fly
to Northern perils, thou and I.

And so she makes her way to Tol-in-Gaurhoth to try to rescue her beloved, with Huan in tow to aid her fight against the fell beasts of Sauron's making.....

*fin*

Tolkien's home: 20 Northmoor Rd, Oxford

2004-11-23T07:25:00.000-08:00

9:32am (UK)
Suburban House Where JRR Tolkien Wrote the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings Is Listed by Heritage Minister Andrew Mcintosh

DEPARTMENT FOR CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT News Release (152¼04) issued by the Government News Network on 23 November 2004

A comfortable 1920s eight bedroom house in the suburbs of Oxford is to become a Grade II listed building, Heritage Minister Andrew McIntosh announced today.

Despite having no special architectural qualities, the house is to get the extra protection from alteration or demolition that listed building status confers, because of its historical importance.

For it was there – between 1930 and 1947 – that Prof. JRR Tolkien wrote The Hobbit and virtually all of The Lord of the Rings trilogy, recently voted the ’most popular book in Britain’ in a BBC survey.

Andrew McIntosh said:

“Buildings are usually listed because of their fine architecture or unique design. But we can also give protection to buildings that have historical association with nationally important people or events. Professor Tolkien’s house in Oxford is a fine example of this.

“The house is largely unaltered since Tolkien’s time, with original doors, doorhandles and ornate window catches. As such it is an important part of our national heritage, and worthy of the additional layer of protection that listing brings.”

Notes to Editors

1. The house – at 20 Northmoor Road, Oxford – was built in 1924 by Fred Openshaw, a local architect, for Basil Blackwell, the owner of Oxford’s famours bookshop. JRR Tolkien lived in the house from 1930 to 1947 and is known to have written The Hobbit and most of The Lord of the Rings trilogy in the drawing room. The interior plan, as well as numerous features, survives unaltered except for the removal of a wall between the former study and drawing room (by Prof. Tolkien) in order to increase the size of his study, presumably to accommodate the increasing number of reference books required to write his work. The main purpose of listing a building is to ensure that care will be taken over decisions affecting its future, that any alterations respect the particular character and interest of the building, and that the case for its preservation is taken fully into account in considering the merits of any redevelopment proposals. The listing covers the whole of the building. Any significant changes to exterior, interior or within the curtilage of the building would require listed building consent. The listing is not restricted to features mentioned in the list description.

2. The criteria for listing are set out in Section 6 of Planning Policy Guidance Note 15: Planning and the Historic Environment (PPG15). This can be found on this web page: http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm–planning/documents/page/odpm–plan–606900.hcsp

Press Enquiries: 020 7211 6276¼6272

Out of hours telephone pager no: 07699 751153

Public Enquiries: 020 7211 6200

Internet: http://www.culture.gov.uk

Department for Culture, Media and Sport

2-4 Cockspur Street

London SW1Y 5DH

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3793076%20target=

The Geste part 4

2004-11-10T13:20:00.000-08:00

A very different kind of Book Spoiler....

From the Geste of Beren and Luthien:

Imagine the scene... a ragged, forlorn, weary Beren chances upon a maid, dancing on a hillock... and is lost.

Of finding, (lines 687 to 700):

"The wind dies; the starry choirs
leap in the silent sky to fires,
whose light comes bitter-cold and sheer
through domes of frozen crystal clear.
A sparkle through the darkling trees,
a piercing glint of light he sees,
and there she dances all alone
upon a treeless knoll of stone!
Her mantle blue with jewels white
caught all the rays of frosted light,
She shone with cold and wintry flame,
as dancing down the hill she came,
and passed his watchful silent gaze,
a glimmer as of stars ablaze."

... and then in lines 1210 to 1223 after Beren is banished from Doriath;

of losing:

"The murmurs soft awake once more
about the woods, the water roar
past the great gates of Thingol's halls;
but no dancing step of Lúthien falls
on turf or leaf. For she forlorn,
where stumbled once, where bruised and torn,
with longing on him like a dream
had Beren sat by the shrouded stream
Esgalduin the dark and strong,
she sat and mourned in a low song:
'Endless roll the waters past!
To this my love hath come at last,
enchanted waters pitiless,
a heartache and a loneliness.'"

What are your thoughts on the passages? Any comments are welcome.

A couple of thoughts about Beren falling in love with Luthien. (these mostly come from a friend of mine who's walking me through his favourite passages bit by bit - it's really thanks to him that you get these posts at all, I haven't got a copy of the Lays of Beleriand yet.. *hangs head in shame*)

on falling in love:

And now his heart was healed and slain
with a new life and with new pain.

Lines 555/6

I like that interpretation of Love.. exquisite pain, that brings life and slays
at the same time.

He gazed, and as he gazed her hair
within its cloudy web did snare
the silver moonbeams sifting white
between the leaves, and glinting bright
the tremulous starlight of the skies
was caught and mirrored in her eyes. 557-562

It's good to remember, at this point, that Tolkien chose to have the names Beren and Luthien engraved upon his tombstone, beneath his own name and the name of his wife.

I am reminded of a comment made by Thomas Hardy of Tess Durbyfield...

"She influenced me..."

And yet, she was his own creation!

It testifies to the amazing power that words have, and how majorly a created world can affect its creator.

JRRT said (like many authors) that his characters

just took over. Remember his comment about Strider?

"But I met a lot of things on the way that astonished me. Tom Bombadil I knew already; but I had never been to Bree. Strider sitting in the corner at the inn was a shock, and I had no more idea who he was than had Frodo. The Mines of Moria had been a mere name; and of Lothlórien no word had reached my mortal ears till I came there. Far away I knew there were the Horse-lords on the confines of an ancient Kingdom of Men, but Fangorn Forest was an unforeseen adventure." ~ Letters 163 #216-7

it's almost as if he was the one on the adventure...

Friendship Quotes

2004-11-05T13:10:00.000-08:00

Altaira's Birthday Mathom

This just happens to be my birthday, and true to TORN tradition, I’ve prepared a special mathom just for all of you.

As I pondered whether to parody or limerick, roast or hug, it occurred to me that the most important thing about TORN to me is the friendships I’ve made along the way (not to start a hug-fest or anything, Draupne and Fingon would kill me ;-)). So I decided to gather up quotes from LOTR that mentioned friends.

Piece of birthday cake, you say! But, true to the essence of our beloved Professor, there are scores of references to friendship in LOTR. I had forgotten how many times our heroes refer to each other as dear friends. Thus, I was forced to narrow it down to twenty-five.

So, without further ado, here are some of my favorite references to friendship in LOTR, along with a few images of friends I’ve made along the way. (looks both ways, and at the risk of getting whacked on the side of the head, hugs everyone)!

1) Frodo (The Shadow of the Past): “O Gandalf, best of friends, what am I to do? For now I am really afraid.”

2) Gildor (Three is Company) “Be careful, friends!” cried Gildor laughing. “Speak no secrets! Here is a scholar of the Ancient Tongue. Bilbo was a good master. Hail Elf-friend” he said to Frodo.

3) Gildor (Three is Company) “If you demand advice, I will for friendship’s sake give it... take such friends as are trusty and willing”

4) Gildor (Three is Company) “I name you Elf-friend, and may the stars shine upon the end of your road”

(Two towers Oscar party-goers)

5) Frodo (A Shortcut to Mushrooms) “I’ve been in terror of you and your dogs for over thirty years, Farmer Maggot. It’s a pity: for I’ve missed a good friend."

6) Merry (A Conspiracy Unmasked) “You can trust us to stick to you, through thick and thin – to the bitter end. And you can trust us to keep any secret of yours – closer than you keep it yourself. But you cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone, and go off without a word. We are your friends, Frodo.”

(ROTK Oscar Party-goers)
7) Guess who? (The Old Forest) “Hop along my little friends, up the Withywindle.”

8) (Flight to the Ford) “[Frodo] saw his friends’ faces more clearly again, and a measure of new strength and hope returned.”

9) Gandalf (The Council of Elrond): “..and Shadowfax departed.. but a great friendship has grown between us, and if I have need he will come at my call.”

10) Elrond to Frodo (the Council of Elrond): “Though all the mighty elf-friends of old, Hador and Hurin, and Turin, and Beren himself were assembled together your seat should be among them.”

11) Elrond to the Fellowship (The Ring Goes South): “You will meet many foes, some open, and some disguised; and you may find friends along your way when you least look for it.”

12) Legolas (The Riders of Rohan): “Come, you shall sit behind me, friend Gimli. Then all will be well and you need neither borrow a horse nor be troubled by one… Gimli was lifted up behind his friend and he clung to him, not much more at ease than Sam Gamgee in a boat.” (Marquette group)

13) Treebeard to Merry & Pippin (Treebeard): “Many of those trees were my friends, creatures I had known from nut and acorn; many had voices of their own that are lost forever now.”

14) Treebeard to Merry & Pippin (Treebeard): “Of course, it’s likely enough my friends, likely enough that we are going to our doom: the last march of the Ents.”

15) Aragorn to Gandalf (The White Rider): “In one thing you have not changed, dear friend, you still speak in riddles.”

16) Theoden witnessing the reunion of the three hunters with Merry and Pippin (The Road to Isengard): “It cannot be doubted that we witness the meeting of dear friends... The days are fated to be filled with marvels.”

17) Legolas to Treebeard (The Voice of Saruman): “I should dearly love to journey in Fangorn’s wood. I have made a bargain with my friend that, if all goes well, we will visit Fangorn together – by your leave…” “Any Elf that comes with you will be welcome,” said Treebeard. “The friend I speak of is not an Elf. I mean Gimli.” “Hoom! This is a strange friendship!”

18) Treebeard referring to Merry & Pippin (The Voice of Saruman): “I shall miss them. We have become friends in so short a while that I think I must be getting hasty. They shall remain friends as long as leaves are renewed.”

19) Frodo to Sam about what to do after the Ring is destroyed (The Passage of the Marshes): “But Samwise Gamgee, my dear hobbit – indeed, Sam my dearest Hobbit, friend of friends – I do not think we need give thought to what comes after that.”

20) Frodo to Faramir (Journey to the Cross-roads): “Most gracious host, it was said to me by Elrond Halfelven that I should find friendship upon the way, secret and unlooked for. Certainly I looked for no such friendship as you have shown. To have found it turns great evil to good.”

21) Eomer to Aragorn (The Battle of the Pelennor Fields): “Twice blessed is help unlooked for, and never was a meeting of friends so joyful,” and they clasped hand in had. “Nor indeed more timely,” said Eomer. “You come none too soon, my friend. Much loss and sorrow has befallen us.” “Then let us avenge it ere we speak of it,” said Aragorn, and they rode to battle together.”

22) Gandalf & Gwaihir (The Field of Cormallen): “Twice you have born me, Gwaihir my friend,” said Gandalf. “Thrice shall pay for all, if you are willing. You will not find me a burden much greater than when you bore me from Zirak-zigal, when my old life burned away.” “I would bear you,” answered Gwaihir, “whither you will, even were you made of stone.”

23) Aragorn (The Steward & The King): “A day draws near that I have looked for in all the years of my manhood, and when it comes I would have my friends beside me.”

24) Pippin (Many Partings): “I wish we could have a Stone that we could see all our friends in and that we could speak to them from far away.”

25) Gandalf to the Hobbits (Homeward Bound): “As for you my dear friends you will need no help. You are grown up now. Grown indeed very high; among the great you are, and I have no longer any fear at all for any of you.”

(Maori bone carving - gift from a friend)

************
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings. It must always be given, it cannot be bought for oneself.

Altaira - if you want me to remove any pictures, do let me know!

Tolkien's Anglo-Saxon poetic links

2004-11-03T06:41:00.000-08:00

Originally posted on Theonering.net on 6th November 2003

Feeling Anglo-Saxon? It's Tolkien Trivia Time!

What to look at today... Hmm now, let me see. *Amatire rummages in an old rose-wood casket full of scrolls and old leather bound books* Genealogy? no... Geography? hmm not today... "On fairy stories"? maybe I'll leave that for next week.... Elvish? yeeks no! Aaaaahhhhh perfect! I've found just the thing.

*blows the dust of a small green volume*

Anglo Saxon poems!

Now let me ask you a question. Does this look familiar to you?

Hwaer cwom mearg? Hwaer cwom mago? Hwaer cwom maþþumgyfa?
Hwaer cwom symbla gesetu? Hwaer sindon seledreamas?
Eala beorht bune! Eala burnwiga!
Eala þeodnes þrym! Hu seo þrag gewat,
genap under nihthelm swa heo no waere.

Yes? No? Well in case you didn't already know. that is Old English. Pretty much the earliest written language known in Britain. (There are smatterings of Viking Runes, but they are contemporary or later, and of course theres Gaelic and Welsh, but they were not written down until much much later either. There is a possiblilty that a handful of rock-carvings on stones in the neolithic are in actual fact a basic written language, but no one is sure.... personally I reckon that they were just the doodles stone-age man made when he was on his mobile phone. No. Anglo-Saxon is almost definitely the first written language we know of in Britain.)

Now I expect that poem raises three questions in your mind. Firstly: What in the world does that mean? Secondly: How do I even pronounce it?! And thirdly: What if anything does that have to do with Tolkien?!

Well, lets see if by answering the first two questions, I can inadvertantly answer the third.
Hwaer say that out loud, speak it phoenetically. What does it sound like to you? if you said where give yourself a gold star!

That is the main key to pronouncing Old English. You say it phoenetically, (just be thankful youre not the one having to spell that! Sheesh! If I have ever found a word more un-phoenetical I certainly can't think of it now!) and you pronounce every letter. So no silent Consonants or Eees here people! (if you were an Anglo-Saxon, those last two words would have been pronounced as 'heeruh pee-owp-luh' make sense?) Also, if you come across an unfamiliar letter such as: 'þ' you pronounce it as a 'th' like in 'there' or 'that'.*

cwom well it looks a lot like 'come' and it is the same basic root word, but in this case it is often translated as 'is.' Confused? I know I am!

mearg** this means 'horse' believe it or not.

Now most consider this whole sentance to be in the past tense, so the translation goes like this:

Where is the horse gone? or What has become of the horse? which gives a better translation to the root word cwom as 'become' instead of 'is'

Have you got a good idea so far? Ok so let's fly through the rest of it.

Hwaer cwom mago? translated as "What has become of the warrior**?"

The other words are:

maþþumgyfa = 'giver of gifts/treasure,' symbla = 'feast/feasting,' gesetu = 'seat/ceremonial seat or dwelling,' sindon = 'are,' seledreamas = 'hall-joy/delight of the hall ,' Eala = 'Alas!' beorht = 'bright,' bune = 'cup/chalice/goblet,' burnwiga = 'chainmailed-warrior,' þeodnes* = 'Prince,' þrym = 'splendidness/illustriousness/brilliance,' Hu = 'how,' seo = 'that,' þrag = 'time,' gewat = 'departed,' genap = 'grow dark/to become (suddenly?) obscured,' nihthelm = 'night's onset/the shadow of night,' swa = 'thus/so/as/consequently,' heo = 'darkness,' no = 'by no means/not,' waere = 'to be/was'

Are you beginning to think that this sounds familiar?

No?

Well let me give you a hand.

It comes from an Old English poem called The Wanderer. Lines 92-96 to be exact. The E-online Wanderer file gives us this information.

"The poem known as The Wanderer appears in The Exeter Book, an anthology dating from the third quarter of the 10th century (Thats from 950-975AD), though the poems in it may be considerably older."

This is what the original looks like.

So what is the full translation?

***"Where is the horse gone? Where the young rider?
What has become of the giver of treasure?
Where are the seats at the feasting gone?
Where are the merry sounds in the hall?
Alas, bright chalice! Alas, the knight and his hauberk!
Alas, the glory of the king! How that hour has departed,
And vanished under cover of darkness, as if it had never been."

Now do you see? Yes, these are almost exactly the same words that Theoden speaks in the film of the Two Towers (or if you want to be picky, the words that Aragorn speaks to Legolas and Gimli when describing the people of Rohan to them).

See TTT The King of the Golden Hall:

"[Aragorn] began to chant softly in a slow tongue unknown to the Elf and Dwarf; yet they listened, for there was strong music in it.
'That, I guess, is the language of the Rohirrim,' said Legolas; ' for it is like to the land itself; rich and rolling in part, and else hard and stern as the mountains. But I cannot guess what it means save that it is laden with the sadness of Mortal Men.'"

That is a really good description of Anglo-Saxon poetry. More often than not they were laments, or if they spoke of great deeds - such as the story of Beowulf - they were still 'laden with sadness' as Legolas says. And his description of the sound of the language is spot on in my opinion, Old English is very definitely rolling and hard at the same time!
Let's go on.

"'It runs thus in the common speech' said Aragorn, 'as near as I can make it.
Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?'"

So now you know where the good Professor got that particular poem from. If we needed any more proof that he was a big fan of Old English and Anglo-Saxon culture, (aside from the fact that he was professor of Anglo-Saxon at Oxford University!) you can't get any better than this!

I think that Tolkien has taken the original lines of the poem and expanded on their meaning much better than a direct translation does.

Well, I have waffled for long enough. Any questions, comments, debates, mistakes noticed or requests for next week as ever are welcomed and appreciated.

footnotes:
(*So Theoden's name if written correctly would probably be þeoden/þeodnes and means 'Prince')
(**notice that the words for warrior and horse are similar. Perhaps because one was rarely seen without the other? In fact another translation gives the word mago the meaning 'young rider').
(***notice there is no word for "the" in the original Anglo-Saxon poem.)

Todays Tolkien Trivia Time was brought to you by "Ping" nose cleaner, for an all round drunken goon-show shine.

Middle Earth Proverbs and Traditional Sayings

2004-10-31T13:46:00.000-08:00

first posted by Lothiriel Adaneth on www.theonering.net

Greenwood Hobbit brought the subject up with the saying - "he can see through a brick wall in time" - a reference to Barliman by Gandalf (FOTR - Many Meetings).

Another person mentioned "glory and trumpets" from Sam. (same chapter)

Some of my favorites:

"Faithful heart may have forward tongue" - Theoden (TTT, King of Golden Hall)

"Oft evil will shall evil mar" Theoden (TTT, The Palantir)

"Our Enemy's devices oft serve us in his despite" Eomer (ROTK, Ride of Rohirrim)

"Twice blessed is help unlooked for" Eomer (ROTK, Battle of P. Fields)

"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us" Gandalf (FOTR, Shadow of the Past)

Well - there's a million more. What are your favorites?

Greenwood Hobbit: On parsimony, from 'A Long-Expected Party' - 'There's some not far away that wouldn't offer a pint of beer to a friend, if they lived in a hole with golden walls.' Gaffer

Kimi adds: "out of the frying pan, into the fire" (The Hobbit)

There are several in LOTR - it's obviously the source of many ancient proverbs :-) E.g. "It's an ill wind as blows nobody no good". And "Better late than never". Some are slightly unfamiliar versions, such as "All's well as ends Better".

Dernwyn: a personal favorite: Celeborn, from "Farewell to Lórien":

"But do not despise the lore that has come down from distant years; for oft it may chance that old wives keep in memory word of things that once were needful for the wise to know."

whereismycoffee: "May the hair on your toes never fall off."
"Never laugh at live dragons."

Elvendala: 'Dont let your heads get too big for your hats!'

Laureanna: "Where will wants not, a way opens." said by Dernhelm, p 787 ROTK

"Need brooks no delay, yet late is better than never." said by Eomer, p 817 ROTK

The History of 'The Hobbit'

2004-10-30T11:07:00.000-07:00

(further additions to follow)

1. The Genesis of the Hobbit

"The first real story of this imaginary world almost fully formed as it is now appears was written during sick-leave at the end of 1916: "The Fall of Gondolin", which I had the cheek to read to the Exeter College Essay Club in 1918 (a memory loss, actually it was Wednesday, March 10th at 8:15pm). The Hobbit was originally quite unconnected, though it inevitably got drawn into the circumference of the greater construction; and in the event modified it.

All I remember about the start of The Hobbit is sitting correcting School Certificate papers in the everlasting weariness of that annual task forced on impecunious academics with children. On a blank leaf I scrawled, "In a hole in the ground there live a hobbit." I did not and do not know why. I did nothing about it for a long time, and for some years I got no further than the production of Thror's Map. It became The Hobbit in the early 1930s , and was eventually published on 21st September, 1937." ~ J.R.R Tolkien

2. Following the Lord of the Rings

What were the changes made to "The Hobbit" after "The Lord of the Rings" was written, and what motivated them?

[This question refers to the major revisions made to the Gollum chapter, "Riddles in the Dark", not to the multitude of minor changes made elsewhere.]

In the original 1937 edition of "The Hobbit" Gollum was genuinely willing to bet his ring on the riddle game, the deal being that Bilbo would receive a "present" if he won. Gollum in fact was dismayed when he couldn't keep his promise because the ring was missing. He showed Bilbo the way out as an alternative, and they parted courteously.

As the writing of LotR progressed the nature of the Ring changed. No longer a 'convenient magical device', it had become an irresistable power object, and Gollum's behavior now seemed inexplicable, indeed, impossible. In the rough drafts of the "Shadow of the Past" chapter Gandalf was made to perform much squirming in an attempt to make it appear credible, not wholly successfully.

Tolkien resolved the difficulty by re-writing the chapter into its present form, in which Gollum had no intention whatsoever of giving up the Ring but rather would show Bilbo the way out if he lost. Also, Gollum was made far more wretched, as befitted one enslaved and tormented by the Ruling Ring. At the same time, however, Bilbo's claim to the Ring was seriously undercut.

[Care must be taken when noting this last point. There are two issues involved, well summarized in the Prologue: "The Authorities, it is true, differ whether this last question was a mere 'question' and not a 'riddle' ... but all agree that, after accepting it and trying to guess the answer, Gollum was bound by his promise" (FotR, 21). Thus, it was Bilbo's winning of the game that was questionable. Given that he had in fact won, albeit on a technicality, he was fully entitled to the prize, which, in the old version, was the ring. In the new version, however, he had no claim to the Ring at all, whether he had won or not, because the Ring was not the stake of the game.]

The textual situation thus reached was that there now existed two versions of the episode. Tolkien deftly made this circumstance part of the story by suggesting that the first time around **Bilbo was lying** (under the influence of the Ring) to strengthen his claim. (Bilbo had written this version in his diary, which was "translated" by Tolkien and published as "The Hobbit"; hence the error in the early editions, later "corrected".) This new sequence of events inside the story is laid out clearly in "Of the Finding of the Ring" (Prologue) and is taken for granted thereafter for the rest of the story (e.g. in "The Shadow of the Past" and at the Council of Elrond).

"The Hobbit" as now presented fits the new scenario remarkably well, even though Tolkien, for quite sound literary reasons, left this entire matter of Bilbo's dishonesty out (it was an entirely irrelevant complication which would have thrown everything out of balance). The present attempt to step back and view the entire picture is made more involved by the fact that there were two separate pieces of dishonesty perpetrated by Bilbo.

The first, made explicit, was that when he initially told his story to Gandalf and the Dwarves he left the ring out entirely -- this no doubt was what inspired Gandalf to give Bilbo the "queer look from under his bushy eyebrows" (H, 99). Later, (after the spider episode) he revealed that he had the Ring, and it must have been at this point that he invented the rigamarole about "winning a present" (an incredible action, given the circumstances). There is, however, no hint in the text of this second piece of dishonesty (as noted above, it would have been a grave literary mistake). Readers are therefore given no indication that when "Balin ... insisted on having the Gollum story... told all over again, with the ring in its proper place" (H, 163) that Bilbo didn't respond with the "true" story, exactly as described in Ch V. In this regard, "Of the Finding of the Ring" in the Prologue is a necessary prelude to LotR.

References:

.Hobbit, 99 (Ch VI), 163 (Ch VIII), "Riddles in the Dark" (Ch V);

.Annotated Hobbit, 104 (Ch VI, note 2), 176 (Ch VIII, note 11), 325-327 (Appendix A: the original version is given here);

.FR, "Of the Finding of the Ring" (Prologue);

.Biography, 203 (V, 2);

.RtMe, 59-60 (3, "The Ring as 'Equalizer'");

.The Return of the Shadow (HoMe VI), 75, 79-81, 84-87 (First Phase, III), 261-265 (Second Phase, XV).

Compiled by Roger Rowe.

Was Gollum a hobbit?

2004-10-30T09:45:00.000-07:00

Yes, beyond all doubt. Gandalf's opinion alone: "I guess they were of hobbit-kind; akin to the fathers of the fathers of the Stoors" (The Fellowship of the Ring, 62) should be sufficient to settle this, but it is confirmed in several other places. The Tale of Years (The Return of the King, Appendix B) has the following entry for the year TA 2463: "About this time Deagol the Stoor finds the One Ring, and is murdered by Smeagol." (The Return of the King, p. 368),

Since it was explained in the Prologue that Stoors were one of the three branches of hobbits (The Fellowship of the Ring, 12), it is clear that the compiler of this entry, evidently either Merry and/or Pippin's heirs (The Fellowship of the Ring, 24-25), accepted this conclusion.

In "The Hunt for the Ring" (Unfinished Tales, Three, IV) it is told that Sauron concluded from his interrogation of Gollum that Bilbo must have been the same sort of creature (Unfinished Tales, 342) (indeed, Gandalf concluded the same thing from his talks with Bilbo (The Fellowship of the Ring, 63)). The following passing reference shows that the author of "The Hunt for the Ring" accepts Gollum's hobbit origin: "Ultimately indomitable [Gollum] was, except by death, as Sauron guessed, both from his halfling nature, and from a cause which Sauron did not fully comprehend ..." (Unfinished Tales, 337).

Perhaps Gandalf's archaic diction contributed to the uncertainty. When a reader suggested that perhaps 'Smeagol's people were not "of hobbit-kind" as suggested by Gandalf', Tolkien dismissed the suggestion. He added:

With regard to Gandalf certainly says at first 'I guess' (The Fellowship of the Ring, 62); but that is in accordance with his character and wisdom. In more modern language he would have said 'I deduce', referring to matters that had not come under his direct observation, but on which he had formed a conclusion based on study. ...But he did not in fact doubt his conclusion: 'It is true all the same, etc.' (The Fellowship of the Ring, 63).

[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 289-290 (#214)]

First given as a lecture at Wycliffe Hall Oxford by Roger Rowe in 1996

Hobbit Holes

2004-10-27T13:44:00.000-07:00

Feeling Hobbity? It's Tolkien Trivia Time!

For those who are not familiar with my weekly post. Tolkien Trivia Time is a delve into the deeper world of Tolkien's Middle Earth, what inspired it, and how it is formed and made.

Today we are looking at Hobbits. (Thanks for Goldilocks Took for inspiring the idea!)

Concerning Hobbits

At the very beginning of the adventure, Tolkien introduces us to Hobbits thus:

"In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort."~An Unexpected Party*~ The Hobbit.

His description of the hole itself sets the tone for the whole book and gives the reader the understanding that a hobbit is in fact much like the kind of person you would have met in the British countryside any time in the last 150 years. That is, save for their height and their rather hairy feet!

"It had a perfectly round door like a porthole, painted green, with a shiny yellow brass knob in the exact middle. The door opened on to a tube-shaped hall like a tunnel: a very comfortable tunnel without smoke, with panelled walls, and floors tiled and carpeted, provided with polished chairs, and lots and lots of pegs for hats and coats... The tunnel wound on and on, going fairly but not quite straight into the side of the hill.. and many little round doors opened out of it, first on one side then on another...: bedrooms, bathrooms, cellars, pantries (lots of these), wardrobes (he had whole rooms devoted to clothes), kitchens, dining-rooms, all were on the same floor, and indeed on the same passage." (as above)

What can be said about that? First of all, A few notes on language. Where did Tolkien get the word Hobbit from?

Well with Tolkien you can guarentee that there is a detailed explanation. It starts with holbytla the name used in Rohan in LOTR for Hobbits. Holbytla is based on the Old English for "Hole-builder." (Originally the word was Kûd-dûkan "Hole-Dweller")

For ease of understanding Tolkien changed all the ancient Rohirric words to Old English and all the Hobbit words to Modern English or something that sounded similar, to make it easier for readers to connect with the story. To show the relationship between the two peoples and the languages they spoke, Tolkien pointed out that Rohirric was to Hobbit as Old English is to Modern English (which has about a third of the same words as Modern English and has the same method of ordering words in a sentence). Thus holbytla became hobbit as Kûd-dûkan became Kuduk.

Other examples can be found in mathom meaning something of little or no use that no one wishes to throw away. Which is based on the Old English (OE) máthm and is supposed to represent the hobbit word kast and its relationship with the Rohirric Kastu. Smial/smile which means 'burrow' is based on the OE word of the same meaning; smygel. The original Hobbit word for smail was trán and the original Rohirric word was Trahan Its interesting to note that this is what the name Sméagol is based upon. And his original name would have been Trahald which means 'burrowing, worming in' very fitting don't you think?!

Smial is used a number of times in Hobbit place-names and surnames. The best known example being Great Smials. But I don't want to bore you with language. Today I want to look at something different. A little known fact, it has even been missed by many Tolkien scholars and biographers... Tolkien lived not 10 miles away from....

Real hobbit holes!

Not far from Sarehole where Tolkien grew up - then on the boarders of the English counties; Worcestershire and Staffordshire - are a collection of little villages. One called Kingsbury, one called Kinver, and one called Holy Austin. Of these three, only Kinver continued into modern day as a substantial village, and sadly, not many of its original buildings remain. Kingsbury was abandoned in the mid 1950s and Holy Austin is kept as a museum.

So what is so special about these three villages? Well, Tolkien and his brother frequently visited them, which makes them significant in their own right, and many people in the local area still do. But to the outside world, they are almost completely unknown. Even if you were to ask someone living in the nearby City of Birmingham if they had heard of these places, you would be very lucky indeed to find a "Yes" amongst the answers given. Until recently when part of Kinver was taken over and rebuilt by the National Trust (a major heritage charity in the UK) they were rarely ever visited by tourists. And even now the Tolkien connection is played down. This is a fairly typical reaction recorded in their guest-book:

I have only lived in kinver four years and only found out it was on my doorstep three days ago when i helped take a display cabinet there thought it was great and will definately go back very soon
~Dean from Kinver.

So where's the proof that there are Hobbit holes in these villages then? I hear you ask.

I suppose the proof is in the pictures! Seeing as many of you will never get the chance to visit them. I don't suppose it will be of any use for me to swear that I have stood inside them and even climbed on their roofs! So I will give you what you are waiting for.. Photographs!

First of all, these are pictures of The Compa which is the Warden's Lodge at Holy Austin.
also here

Gorgeous isn't it!?

an interesting difference though, is the lack of round windows. Obviously this was an addition of Tolkien's imagination. Though I must point out that, it has a green door! just in case you didn't notice. *winks*

Now I must point out that if you went to Kinver you will find only a normal English village, with brick houses and streets. The Rock Houses as they are known locally are found only on the very edge of the modern village on Kinver Edge; a rather prominant hill that overlooks the village. This has brought many to believe that Kinver is the original setting for Hobbiton, as it has one row of rather more substantial Rockhouses on top of another layer of smaller two-room dwellings like those inhabited by the Gamgees in bagshot row. But I don't suppose we will ever know if that is true or not.

The interior of the main Kinver house looks much like this: the house was recently "restored" by the National Trust which IMHO means "spoiled." But you can judge that for yourselves. If you wan't to see what they've done to it, you can see it here. The houses were cut into the local sandstone rock, which is easy to carve and manipulate. Most of the local houses are also built out of it. They joke that if you need a new shelf all you need to do is apply a chisel.

As with Humans Tolkien described how Hobbits originally all lived in holes in the ground - or caves in real archaeological terms and that slowly they developed buildings:

"All Hobbits had originally lived in holes in the ground, or so they believed, and in such dwellings they still felt most at home; but in course of time they had been obliged to adopt other forms of abode. Actually in the Shire in Bilbo's day it was, as a rule, only the richest and the poorest Hobbits that maintained the old custom. The poorest went on living in burrows of the most primitive kind, mere holes indeed, with only one window or none; while the well-to-do still constructed more luxurious versions of the simple diggings of old.

"The craft of building may have come from Elves or Men, but the Hobbits used it in their own fashion. THey did not go in for towers. Their houses were usually long, low and comfortable. The oldest kind were, indeed, no more than built imitations of smials, thatched with dry grass or straw, or roofed with turves, and having walls somewhat bulged."

This is much like the countryside around Sarehole and Kinver which is well known for its thatched roofs. It does seem that Tolkien's art is imitating life.

Still not convinced? Well, here is a picture of what the main house at Holy Austin would have looked like when Tolkien visited it as a child: If you wan't to see further pictures.. Including what the approach to the house looks like -which reminds me very much of Bilbo's gate with the "No admittance except on Party Business" not on it. click here It even has steps up to the door remeniscent of the images used in the movie. And a number of interior shots to give you an idea of what it would have been like to live there.

Not all of the houses have been restored or in a liveable condition: as this picture here shows For sadly many of those who lived there did not find their Hole-dwelling habits in keeping with the increasingly fast-paced 20th century mode of life. Just as Tolkien says in his explanation for Hobbits, the Holy Austin rock-dwellers are far less numerous now than they used to be:

"Hobbits are an unobtrusive but very ancient people, more numerous formerly than they are today; for they love peace and quiet and good tilled earth: a well-ordered and well-farmed countryside was their favourite haunt. They do not and did not understand or like machines more complicated than a forge- bellows, a water-mill, or a hand-loom, though they were skilful with tools." ~Prologue FOTR.

When I read this, I cannot help but think that Tolkien was writing an epitaph for those who had given up on the Rock-houses. Many were moved into stark modern council houses, while others simply remained until they died and then the dwellings fell into disrepair. Think of the poor hobbits moved out of their holes and into big brick houses by Sharkey and his goons. Imagine how they must have felt, and you will get the idea.

But some of the Rock-houses are still used.

and retain something of the charm that would have appealed to J.R.R and his brother on their visits as children to the area.

*just a little note. I love the fact that Tolkien ties in the stories of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings by including continuity in the titles of the opening chapters. In The Hobbit the first chapter is "An Unexpected Party" and in The Fellowship of the Ring it is "A Long-Expected Party". *smiles*

Sorry this was so long, I promised myself I would keep it short this week. LOL ah well, hope it was an enjoyable read regardless!

Frodo's memories of Weathertop

2004-10-09T11:02:00.000-07:00

First posted by TORnado White Gull on Wednesday 6th October 2004.

October 6th: One of the most agonizing days in Middle Earth history. Thanks, gramma, for summarizing its pain in the TIME (Today in Middle Earth) thread below.

First Return

This morning, chill, an east wind blew
And though bright leaves which fell were few,
Iced, my heart stood still to feel
The frigid pain I thought was healed.

As Fall's first frost foretells the death
Of promise borne on Summer's breath
The hopes I'd grown in light of day
In darkness wither swift away.

How strange a simple thing like wind
Could to my heart stark message send
And instantly leave stripped and bare
Soul's secrets buried deep, with care.

This first return of pain I bless -
Without it I might not soon guess
Of all the evils left behind
My own would be the ones I find

Too strong to kill, too vast to hide,
Too poisonous to keep inside,
But ever, surely, outward spread
Till all with in their grasp lies dead.

That's why before too many Falls
Bring pain I can't endure at all
I'll seek the only place I know
Where leaves fall not when east wind blows.

(White Gull)

Ten Tolkien Factoids

2004-10-09T09:27:00.000-07:00

-Ballantine, US publishers of The Hobbit, never managed to explain to the outraged author why their cover picture included two emus.

-According to family legend, the Tolkiens are descended from the 16th-century George von Hohenzollern who was so reckless in battle that he got the nickname Tollkühn -- German for foolhardy.

-Tolkien's ear for language sometimes needed fine-tuning. In an early Lord of the Rings draft Frodo was called Bingo, and one Silmarillion elf was originally Tinfang Warble.

-C.S. Lewis mentioned Tolkien's magical drowned land of Númenor in his own novel The Hideous Strength, but spelt it wrong ("Numinor"). Tolkien's verdict on that book: "Tripish, I fear." He wasn't keen on Narnia either.

-When one of his readings was first taped, Tolkien was intensely suspicious of the diabolical machine and insisted on reciting the Lord's Prayer in Gothic into the mike to purge any evil influences.

-Best contortionist feat in Middle-Earth: "'Yrch!' said Legolas, falling into his own tongue."

-Our author battled furiously with Allen and Unwin's printers over corrections to his nonstandard spellings, like "dwarves" and "elven" rather the dictionary's "dwarfs" and "elfin". He had the last laugh: thank to his influence, "dwarves" has pretty well replaced "dwarfs" in modern fantasy....

-Friends and biographers said loyally that Tolkien's erudition and enthusiasm made his Oxford lectures hugely successful despite speech problems (he injured his tongue in early life). Others were less respectful: one-time student Sir Kingsley Amis remembered those Old English lectures as "incoherent and often inaudible."

-Drafts of Lord of the Rings were read aloud to Oxford's "Inklings" literary group, including Lewis and Charles Williams. Once, as Tolkien began a chapter, a mutter was heard from the back of the room: "Oh God, not another freaking elf." *

-The Tolkien family dreads further publicity from the coming movies. After decades of harassment from overenthusiastic fans and money-hunters, Tolkien's son and literary executor Christopher now lives in France and uses an alias when visiting England. Keeping wild boar in his garden also helps.

Feature by David Langford for the SFX promotional supplement about The Lord of the Rings, Spring 2001.

Posted on TORn by Ringer Squire on Thursday 7th October 2004

*The actual very bad word appears in the web version of this text, but was magically edited to what you see here when I cut and pasted it into TORn, before I could even fix it myself. There be powerful hoodoo in TORn's message editor!
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TORnsibs discuss:

Annael Asks, "did Tolkien fall into his own tongue?" ;-)

Kimi replies: A rugby injury (which in this part of the world is often a euphemistic reference to a different part of the body entirely).

From the Biography: "Rugby sometimes led to injuries... on another occasion he cut his tongue, and though the wound healed satisfactorily he later ascribed to it much of his indistinctness of speech (though in truth he was known as an indistinct speaker before he cut his tongue...)"

I'm always amused by references to Christopher's residence as if it were a hardship to live in one of the most beautiful places I've ever been. Gosh, fancy "having" to live in south-west France, there among the walnut forests and vineyards, surrounded by ancient castles and spectacular scenery. He probably feels he has to act the part by drinking the finest Bordeaux, perhaps a drop of Sauternes from time to time, and truffles simply all the time.

I imagine they eat a bit of wilk pork, too :-)
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Erather:
I had heard some, but not all, of these. Can't resist adding a couple, which I'm sure you know but not everyone:

* In addition to Frodo being "Bingo" in early drafts, Aragorn was originally named Trotter, a curious hobbit wearing wooden shoes due to a bad experience in Mordor in the past.

* An alternative version of Celeborn's bio had him born in Valinor; his name in Quenya was Teleporno.

Aunt Dora Baggins: IIRC, Trotter's bad experience was in Moria, where his feet were tortured by orcs. Curiously enough, a shadow of this survives in LotR, where Aragorn says he went through Moria once, and that the memory was very evil.

Foe Hammer of Gondolin:Teleporno was still used...

(from the Encyclopedia of Arda)

Teleporno - The Telerin version of Celeborn

Galadriel's consort Celeborn took his name from the Sindarin language, but we have a few rare cases of the same name translated into High-elven (or, strictly, Telerin) form, as Teleporno. This variation of his name seems to belong to a tradition that wasn't ultimately incorporated into The Silmarillion (in which Celeborn originated as one of the Teleri, rather than among the Sindar), and so it is doubtful the name was ever applied directly to the Elf himself.

A more likely use for the name, though unattested by Tolkien, would be for the White Tree of Tol Eressëa. In Middle-earth, it was referred to in Sindarin as Celeborn ('silver tree'), but the Telerin form Teleporno would seem quite appropriate for use by the Elves of the Lonely Isle.
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Drogo Drogo: Emus and a lion..

What's even funnier about the Barbara Remington cover art on the Ballantine Hobbit (and LOTR authorized paperback editions) was that he balked over the inclusion of a lion to the point that he made the publisher remove it from subsequent printings. The emus, however, remained, leaving us to ponder why some zoo animals are better suited to Middle-earth than others!

The lion Hobbit is a collector's item now, and I was thrilled to find it for $1 at a used bookstore about 2 years ago--Alibris had it listed for the absurd price of $180 at that time.

The lion is on this page towards the middle, 1st Ballantine pb ed

Squire: what a cool bibliography, or publishing history or whatever they call it. I had no idea the little bowing hobbit doesn't appear on later editions of the US 1938 hardback.

I love the infamous lion, and also the first UK paperback from 1960. Thanks for finding that!

drogo drogo: The bowing hobbit is the sacred cow of book collectors

"Houghton-Mifflin also decided to place a small figure of a bowing hobbit on the title page and the cover. Unfortunately, this hobbit wore boots! To be fair to the publisher, this hobbit was modeled on the hobbit figure in Tolkien's illustration, Conversation with Smaug. The hobbit in the illustration also wears boots. This figure was removed at some point in production, probably as part of the second impression. However, the American edition with the bowing hobbit is also referred to as the first state of the first impression. The number of copies of the first state is currently unknown."

Those editions go for up to $15,000 with dealers (highest price now on Alibris). Those little mistakes make all the difference in the world for the value of the book.

By the way, anyone who wants to start collecting Tolkien books should watch out for the absolutely outrageous prices some sellers charge for rather ordinary editions of his books (dealers and Ebay sellers, some just because they don't know any better). It's not the edition, it's the printing # that matters. First and maybe second printings/impressions are very valuable, but prices go down from there aside from oddities like the lion Ballantine Hobbit. Right now, the highest currently listed price on Albris for a 36th printing of the US Houghton Mifflin Hobbit is a brain melting $9,030,838.00 !!!! Uh, folks, I have a 36th printing of my own and it came out in 1978 since that's when I bought it new, so that's 50 years from a first printing of an American edition. Ay carramba!

Curious: But did you know squire's family edition is also signed by Tolkien and dedicated to squire's grandfather! Signed first editions are in a whole different category. By all means have that looked at by a professional, squire!
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Skadhi:
Castle Hohenzollern?!?
ok... now I'm *totally* interested...!
this is my neighborhood castle!!!
there's somewhere else to bring flat-frodo ;-)
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Celandine Brandybuck: Dwarrows... perhaps it's a good thing he didn't go for the true plural, eh? "Dwarves" having caused him enough editorial grief.

I'd comment on Legolas falling into his own tongue, but this is a family board...
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Penthe: "incoherent and often inaudible."
Diana Wynne Jones's extremely charitable (?) comment on this is that Tolkien was attempting to get rid of his undergraduates so he could keep writing his books.

Squire: Where does Wynne Jones say that?
Is that in a biography?

It seems unlikely that Tolkien would try to "get rid of his undergraduates" to spend more time with his books, when the undergraduates were paying his salary, and the books were practically unpublishable. I believe professors were paid by the lecture, over and above their nominal staff salary for supervising studies on a one-on-one basis with their assigned students. Tolkien supplemented his income by lecturing and by grading term exams, which he also hated, according to biographies I've read.

I suspect his lecture style was a function of shyness in public speaking, a not uncommon trait in many people whether they are scholars or not. I don't think much of the "injured tongue" theory, unless he used it as an crutch to avoid doing what he didn't like doing.

A while ago, someone posted some sound files of Tolkien reading from his books, and his voice was clear, strong, and lively.
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Lelin:Okay, how about this theory?
Tollkuhn = foolish = Took

Nina Glyndwr: toll = mad, kühn = bold (taken seperately)

Chip of Dale: Sounds Tookish enough for me.
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dernwyn:
*chuckles* Gotta love that man!

I remember being horrified the first time I read about "Bingo" - can you imagine: "You'll keep an eye on Bingo, won't you?" sounds like Bilbo wants Gandalf to help at the local Saturday night gaming.

I think it was Lewis who made the comment regarding "another...elf". Although he had disdain for Tolkien's fantasy, and Tolkien was appalled at Lewis' outright allegories, it's wonderful that the two were such friends who could complement and support each other's endeavors.

Arevanye: I have read that it was Hugo Dyson who made the remark about the elves, while quite inebriated at a meeting of the Inklings. In fact, Colin Duriez, in his book "Tolkien and Lewis: The Gift of Friendship" went on to say that if Dyson was at a meeting of the Inklings, he would veto any reading from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings manuscripts.

I think that Lewis was one of Tolkien's greatest supporters, and immensely enjoyed hearing Tolkien read his chapters aloud as he wrote them. Tolkien has acknowledged in his Letters that without Lewis's encouragement, the stories might never have been published. You could say that Lewis was one of the first "fans" of LOTR.

Dernywn: I'm still trying to get a handle on Tolkien's early adult years, and the relationships among the Inklings, and how he and Lewis seemed to lose touch with each other as LOTR neared completion.

Arevanye:Yes, the Inklings fascinate me as well.

I think that Lewis and Tolkien remained friends all their lives, but their friendship became strained because Tolkien disapproved of Lewis's radio talks on Christian theology. Even though Tolkien played a key role in Lewis's conversion from atheism to Christianity, he felt those subjects were better handled by expert theologians. Also, Lewis knew that Tolkien would disapprove of his relationship with, and subsequent marriage to an American divorcee (Joy Davidman), and so their communication with each other waned. But Tolkien was quite shaken by Lewis's death in 1963. Four days after Lewis's death, he wrote a letter to his daughter, Priscilla and said "So far I have felt the normal feelings of a man of my age--like an old tree that is losing all its leaves one by one: this [Lewis's death] feels like an axe-blow near the roots. Very sad that we should have been so separated in the last years; but our time of close communion endured in memory for both of us." (Letter #251)

Names - Belladonna Took

2004-10-04T13:08:00.000-07:00

The Naming of Hobbits..

..in the Shire, often followed the alliterative style of the Anglo-Saxons. That basically means that they chose names that would roll off the tongue well together when you recited them in order.

A good example of this is seen in the Kings of the Mark (Rohan).

* Fréa,
* Fréawine,
* Goldwine,
* Déor...
* Fréalaf Hildeson,
* Brytta,
* Walda,
* Folca,
* Folkwine
* Fengel,
* Thengel,
* Théoden.

Hobbits, Tolkien says shared a common language with the Rohirrim at one point in time. Merry and Pippin find this out when talking to Théoden.

......[Théoden speaks] "'So these are the lost ones of your company, Gandalf? The days are fated to be filled with marvels. Already I have seen many since i left my house; and now here before my eyes stand yet another of the folk of legend. Are not these the Halflings, that some among us call the Holbytlan?'
......'Hobbits, if you please, lord,' said Pippin.
......'Hobbits?' said Théoden. 'Your tonge is strangely changed; but the name sounds not unfitting so. Hobbits! No report that I have heard does just ice to the truth.'
......Merry bowed; and Pippin got up and bowed low. 'You are gracious, lord; or I hope that I may so take your words.' he said. 'And here is another marvel! I have wandered in many lands, since I left my home, and never till now have I found people that knew any story concerning hobbits.'
......'My people came out of the North long ago,' said Théoden...." ~ TTT The Road to Isengard

Holbytla is the Anglo-Saxon for 'hole-dweller' and the language of hobbits compared with the Rohyrrim would be the same as Modern English to Anglo-Saxon - also known as Old English.

It seems that (especially amongst the Tooks who were Thains - see ___) Hobbits shared the same love for rhyming names as the men of Eorl.

A great example of this is in the children of the Old Took (Gerontius) who until Bilbo was famed for having lived to be the oldest ever hobbit.

Gerontius' sons:

* Isengrim III (1232-1330)
* Hildigard (died young)
* Isumbras IV (1238-1339)
* Hildigrim (1240 -1341)
* Isembold (1242-1346)
* Hildifons (1244-?)
* Isembard (1247 - 1346)
* Hildibrand (1249-1334)
* Isengar (1262-1360)

They have a sing-songish quality don't they?

Of his three daughters, their rhyming style is even more interesting. Because put together they form a continuous repeating sound:

belladonnamirabelladonnamirrabella..... etc etc.

Belladonna, (1252-1334), Donnamira (1256-1348), & Mirabella (1260-1360)

What the Old Took would have done if he had had any more daughters I have no idea, he would soon end up repeating himself!

Belladonna

The fair Belladonna had the misfortune of marrying a Baggins. (Very respectable folk). Who did not at all approve of adventures. Which seems to have left Poor Belladonna fairly constricted in her life. Perhaps this is why she only ever produced one son - which is unusual for hobbits, but considerably more common amongst the Bagginses! Bilbo only had one cousin per aunt & uncle and Frodo was also an only child - whatever her lot was with Bungo, at the very least she could console herself in her son being the most respected of Hobbits in Hobbiton.. at least, he was....

"Bilbo Baggins is no ordinary Hobbit, no... although I’ll admit the differences between ‘ordinary’ and ‘unusual’ tend to be fairly hard to discern amongst the short chubby ones. But Bilbo is the son of Belladonna Took (and isn’t that a name that just screams of black lace gloves and too much eye makeup?), and Belladonna was very interested in my tales of adventure when I used to frequent these parts. I was thinking that the mix of Tookish adventurousness and Bagginsesque sense would help keep Bilbo alive and in one piece... "

~ Gandalf's diaries, the Hobbit Years, by TORnado Ufthak

Belladonna is another common name for Deadly Nightshade (Atropa belladonna)

Some of the other common names for this poisonous plant are: Devil's Cherries and Naughty Man's Cherries

Taken from botanical.com:

"A peculiar symptom in those poisoned by Belladonna is the complete loss of voice, together with frequent bending forward of the trunk and continual movements of the hands and fingers, the pupils of the eye becoming much dilated."

"The apples of Sodom are held to be related to this plant, and the name Belladonna is said to record an old superstition that at certain times it takes the form of an enchantress of exceeding loveliness, whom it is dangerous to look upon, though a more generally accepted view is that the name was bestowed on it because its juice was used by the Italian ladies to give their eyes greater brilliancy, the smallest quantity having the effect of dilating the pupils of the eye."

Black lace gloves and eye makeup seems pretty accurate!

All you ever wanted to know about the Belladonna flower, but were afraid to ask...

(Additional information supplied by Ringer Arevanye)

'The Lay' Third Extract

2004-10-04T10:30:00.000-07:00

A very different kind of Book Spoiler...

An extract from Tolkien's 'Lay'

Morgoth Falls:

Then flaring suddenly they fell,
down, down upon the floors of hell.
The dark and mighty head was bowed;
like mountain-top beneath a cloud
the shoulders foundered, the vast form
crashed, as in overwhelming storm
huge cliffs in ruin slide and fall;
and prone lay Morgoth in his hall.
His crown there rolled upon the ground,
a wheel of thunder; then all sound
died, and a silence grew as deep
as were the heart of Earth asleep.

Beneath the vast and empty throne
the adders lay like twisted stone,
the wolves like corpses foul were strewn;
and there lay Beren deep in swoon:
no thought, no dream nor shadow blind
moved in the darkness of his mind.
'Come forth, come forth! The hour hath knelled,
and Angband's mighty lord is felled!

It might be interesting to compare this with Sauron's destruction in ROTK.

......"..Sam got up. He was dazed, and blood from his head dripped in his eyes. He groped forward, and then he saw a strange and terrible thing. Gollum on the edge of the abyss was fighting like a mad thing with an unseen foe...
.........The fires below awoke in anger, the red light blazed... ...Suddenly Sam saw Gollum's long hands draw upwards to his mouth; his white fangs gleamed, and then snapped as they bit. Frodo gave a cry, and there he was, fallen upon his knees at the chasm's edge."

......"...Out from the beleaguered hills knights of Gondor, Riders of Rohan, Dúnedain of the North, close-serried companies, drove against their wavering foes, piercing the press with the thrust of bitter spears. But Gandalf lifted up his arms and called once more in a clear voice. 'Stand, Men of the West! Stand and wait! This is the hour of doom.'
......And even as he spoke the earth rocked beneath their feet. Then rising swiftly up, far above the Towers of the Black Gate, high above the mountains, a vast soaring darkness sprang into the sky, flickering with fire. The earth groaned and quaked. The Towers of the Teeth swayed, tottered, and fell down; the mighty rampart crumbled; the Black Gate was hurled in ruin; and from far away, now dim, now growing, now mounting to the clouds, there came a drumming rumble, a roar, a long echoing roll of ruinous noise.
......'The realm of Sauron is ended!' said Gandalf. 'The Ring-bearer has fulfilled his Quest.'
......And as the Captains gazed south to the Land of Mordor, it seemed to them that, black against the pall of cloud, there rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky. Enormous it reared above the world, and stretched out towards them a vast threatening hand, terrible but impotent: for even as it leaned over them, a great wind took it, and it was all blown away, and passed; and then a hush fell...."

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Greenwood Hobbit comments:

Well, that prose wins hands down over that extract of poetry - so much more dramatic and evocative. I always find the 'dedum dedum dedum dedum' gets in the way of the vision for me, when trying to describe something as awesome as that.

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Linkinpark Elf says:

B0th dramatic and poetic in their own way

though the destruction of Sauron seems more immediate and powerful as we are given the point of view of those witnessing the event, whereas the fall of Morgoth reads more like a recounting. Yet his fall seems at the same time more personal as he is described as a corporal being rather than a bodiless shadow.
Interesting read, Amatire. Where exactly is Morgoth's fall described? I'm not familiar with Tolkien's 'Lay'.

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It has a number of different names..

The Geste of Beren and Luthien
The Lays of Beleriand
The Lay of Leithian

The Lays of Beleriand is the title of the third History of Middle-earth book.

Well worth the read.
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Sandicomm:

I prefer the passage where Sam is running out of the forge (carrying Frodo? Can't remember) and it seems like he sees all of the courts of Sauron, and then the tower itself, crashing down. I'm afraid that I don't have the book with me, so I can't show it to y'all.

They are wonderful parallels, but I think there were meant to be, consciously, or subconsciously, parallels between the quest of Beren and the quest of Frodo.

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Squire's comments:

Brilliant connection!

How excellent! Morgoth's fall to Luthien's song, rendered in a metaphor of mountains collapsing (after all, his incarnate form was evidently gigantic compared to the Elves) -- in language that Tolkien echoed 20 years later in describing the fall of Sauron's mountaintop castle.

I don't have it with me, but you really should also look at Sam's vision of the collapse of Barad-dur as seen from the Sammath Naur. Similar language is used there too.

Also notice how even Hell must be a place, and the devil a physical being: Morgoth's throne room is ultimately just a room, populated with snakes and wolves; and Morgoth is a gargantuan, but physical, being. The poet uses metaphors of immensity and intensity to convey a level of horror belied by such mundane words as floor and throne.

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......"Sam ran to Frodo and picked him up and carried him out to the door. And there upon the dark threshold of the Sammath Naur high above the plains of Mordor, such wonder and terror came on him that he stood still forgetting all else, and gazed as one turned to stone.
......A brief vision he had of swirling cloud, and in the midst of it towers and battlements, tall as hills, founded upon a mighty mountain-throne above immeasurable pits; great courts and dungeons, eyeless prisons sheer as cliffs, and gaping gates of steel and adamant: and then all passed. Towers fell and mountains slid; walls crumbled and melted, crashing down; vast spires of smoke and spouting steams went billowing up, up, until they toppled like an overwhelming wave, and its wild crest curled and came foaming down upon the land. And then at last over the miles between there came a rumble, rising to a deafening crash and roar; the earth shook, the plain heaved and cracked, and Orodruin reeled. Fire belched from its riven summit. The skies burst into thunder and seared with lightening. Donw like lashing whips fell a torrent of black rain. And into the heart of the storm, with a cry that pierced all other sounds, tearing the clouds asunder, the Nazgul came, shooting like flaming bolts, as caught in the fiery ruin of hill and sky they crackled, withered, and went out."

good grief...!

It has so many elements that appear in both, the hero lying prone on the floor as one dead, his faithful friend coming to his rescue, the whole area crumbling around them...

..showing that it was the power and will of their evil opponant that held the whole thing together.

Time and again in Tolkien's work I see repeating themes. If I didn't know better, I'd say he was a firm believer in the addage "history always repeats itself!"

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He called it "eucatastrophe."

And yes, Tolkien loved to return to favorite themes, both dark and light, making them echo throughout his fictional history. Although as with history, Tolkien does not exactly repeat himself, he just rhymes. ~ Curious

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What Udun says:

it reminds me of a symphony, or probably more accurately, an opera..

With overtures and reccuring musical themes.

I remember (just to dumb it down a moment) the Composer who wrote the music for the first Harry Potter movie, saying that he had created themes for each different character, and also for different places or moods.

I imagine Tolkien having an 'Evil' theme, (and others I guess) that repeats itself many times over throughout the history of Middle Earth. Each time a little different, but still recognisable.

Sauron's greeting

2004-10-04T09:24:00.000-07:00

Posted on TORn by TORnado 'Bumpkin' on Sunday 3rd October 2004.

"I see you!"

Bear with me, its Sunday arvo here, and I have a sore head from last night ...Last week I was watching the Oprah Show and Bill Clinton was being interviewed. He was speaking of the enormous efforts and hard work being done in Africa to get generic medications to AIDS victims. He said that one of the most impacting things he experienced whilst being there was that he had met people in a region (cant remember if he said where) who when greeted with the words "Hello" that the reply was "I see you". He thought this so profound and meaningful, he uses it now himself.

Now this might not be any big deal and I may be ignorant in not knowing any better, but the words 'I see you'is also a form of greeting in the ROTK - although not as welcoming - and JRRT being born in SAfrica - I thought that this maybe a common greeting reply.

Are there any other cultures that use this expression on a meet and greet?

Any thoughts on this?

No loud ones please .... my head y'know.

Bumpkin x

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Elberbeth says:

It's pretty common in many parts of Africa

and it basically is a form of respectful acknowledgement.

Names - Theoden (& Tookish Thanes)

2004-10-02T10:46:00.000-07:00

Posted by Nina Glyndwr on Saturday 2nd October 2004

Possible origin of the name Theoden

I am just doing some volunteer proof-reading for Project Gutenberg (a site where you can read out-of-copyright books - worth a visit)... and I came across this:

"Every thane, in the distribution of his lands, had
two objects in view: the support of his family, and
the maintenance of his dignity. He therefore retained
in his own hands a parcel of land near his
house, which in the Saxon times was called inland,
and afterwards his demesne, which served to keep
up his hospitality: and this land was cultivated either
by slaves, or by the poorer sort of people, who
held lands of him by the performance of this service.
The other portion of his estate he either gave
for life or lives to his followers, men of a liberal
condition, who served the greater thane, as he himself
served the king. They were oalled Under
Thanes, or, according to the language of that time,
Theoden.[1] They served their lord in all public
business; they followed him. in war; and they
sought justice in his court in all their private differences.
These may be considered as freeholders
of the better sort, or indeed a sort of lesser gentry *
therefore, as they were not the absolute dependants,
but in some measure the peers of their lord, when
they sued in his court, they claimed the privilege
of all the German freemen, the right of judging
one another: the lord's steward was only the register."

Tolkien with his interest in Anglo-Saxon prose and poetry probably knew this. Maybe he had even read the original book by Edmund Burke.

Just thought I'd mention it. In the films, Theoden is one of my favourite characters.

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Reera the Red replies:

The Anglo-Saxon word théod means "people". The name Théoden is derived from a word which means "ruler of the people".

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Amatire sticks her or in again:

(this could be interesting to those who are wanting to know about Pippin and the Took family who were Landowners/Thanes)

I've been looking through the Anglo-Saxon dictionary for a diminutive Thegn
(Thane) or a role of Thane's assistant.

I can't find anything, but I can tell you that as far as I know, the Social
hierarchy in A-S England went like this:

(I'm sure Reera will correct me if I'm wrong).

* King (þeoden),

* Prince (æthling),

* high ranking Nobles(ealdormen),

* Thanes(þegn)

* landholder(geneat - my dictionary defines them as "tenants
who works for a lord" or literally "also-companion")

* Knights (gesið - "follower/retainer/warrior/count/thain"),

* freemen, (ceorls, - layman, literally "churl")

* peasant farmers (gebures - freeholder of the lowest class - word
literally means "peasant farmer")

* Tenants (gafolgeldan/gafolgielden - literally
"tribute/tenant/debtor"),

* serf (læt)

* slave.

A ceorl would be directly under a Thane on the land, so that might be the
Under-Thane your article mentions, or (based on the name's meaning) it could be
the geneat.

Just in case you wanted to know: (From The social context of Anglo-Saxon England)

The hierarchy of Anglo-Saxon society was defined in law. The fine for many crimes varied according to the rank of either the perpetrator or the victim. The most important of these were the fines paid for killing a man, the wergild 'man-price'. The earliest Kentish law codes recognise three main divisions, noble (eorlcundne) with a wergild of 300 Kentish shillings, free men (frigne mann) with a wergild of 100 shillings and three classes of unfree læt valued at 80, 60 and 40 shillings each.

The qualification for the status of a þegn 'thegn' is uncertain. A late law code states that a ceorl who owned five 'hides' of land acquired a thegn's wergild but that a ceorl who acquired a mail byrnie, a helmet and a sword but had no land remained a ceorl. However, thegn status also had a hereditary element that did not depend on ownership of land and it is clear that thegns could be landless.

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On the word "Thegn"

For those who would like to add some real Anglo-saxon to their fanfics...

þegn (þægn) [Thane] - m " I servant, minister, retainer, vassal, folloew, disciple: II freeman, master (as opposed to slave): III courtier, noble, (official as distinguished from hereditory), IIII military attendant, warrior, hero."

ðegnboren (ðegenboren) - wellborn

ðegngylde - n price on a thanes head (to be paid of you harmed a thane)

ðegnhyse - m attendant, retainer

ðegnlic - noble/brave/loyal (ðegnlice - noble-advice)

ðegnian [theine] - to serve, minister, wait on, supply another with anything, perform an office.

ðegnræden - f thaneship, service,

ðegnrigt - n rights or privilages of a thane,

ðegnscipe - m I thaneship, duty, service, II ability, manliness, valour, III body of retainers

ðegnscolu - f band of vassals

ðegnsorh - f sorrow at losing a thane/at a thane's death

ðegning - (ðening/ðenung) a thane's people

ðegnweorud - n band of followers

Birthday Definitions

2004-09-22T12:15:00.000-07:00

not exactly Tolkien Trivia, but a lot of fun..!

New Definitions.

This is something the Washington Post does as a competition.

Take any word from the dictionary,

alter it by adding, subtracting or changing one or two letters, and supply a
new definition. Or add two words together to make a new one, or
alternatively come up with a new definition for a real word.

(put the original words underneath so that those who don't have English as a
first language can follow it a little easier.)

here are some of the winners.

Sarchasm: The gulf between the author's sarcastic wit and the reader who
doesn't get it.

(sarcasm + Chasm)

Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really
bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's, like, a serious
bummer.

(karma + Armageddon)

Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very high.

Foreploy: any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of
obtaining.. *cough* family board *cough*

I've been thinking about a few LOTR-related ones for Frodo & Bilbo's
birthday. Seeing as our good professor was a Philologist. I thought he
wouldn't mind...

Anominous - slightly scary looking stranger/unknown figure in the
shadowy corner of an inn or on a horse.

(Anonymous + ominous)

Berthday when hobbits eat too much at Bilbo's party.

Followship - "Mordor, Which way Gandalf? Left or right?"

Pipweed - Pippin's secret stash!

Drag-on - when the mind-games with Smaug just won't come to an end..

Complany when everybody in the group (*cough* Boromir *cough*) has a
different idea as to what to do with that dratted piece of gold.

See if you can come up with any more.

Posted on TORn as part of Bilbo & Frodo's 2004 Birthday celebrations.

Two Birthday Mathoms for Frodo

2004-09-22T09:34:00.000-07:00

Happy Birthday to my beloved hobbits, Bilbo and Frodo Baggins. Thank you, Professor, for giving them life.

In honor of Frodo I chose two of my poems that (I feel) best say what's in my heart. (Don't worry, tornsibs, these are relatively true to canon. There's no way I could post the poem that reveals my true gift to them, delivered September 22, 1423.)

Can You Hear Me?
By Elanor the Fair

I don't know how to say this,
But I know that I must try,
For the things that I hold in my heart
Are more than I can hide.

You left when I was very small,
I've no memories, it's true,
But Dad brought back from Gondor
A likeness drawn of you.

I don't know what artist drew it,
From what memories or place,
But each time my dad would look at it,
A smile would touch his face.

You're standing on a balcony,
The wind is in your hair,
Your eyes shine with an Elven light,
But there's also sadness there.

It's that sadness, Sir, that troubles me,
That makes me need to say,
There's not a day that passes by
That I don't feel that way.

I've read the Red Book many times,
And memorized some parts.
I've walked with you down roads so dark
I thought they'd freeze my heart.

I've wept beside my dad when he
Held you on Mt. Doom,
And I've wept to hear his stories
As I sat across the room.

I guess the thing I want to say
Sounds so very small,
But, thank you, Master Frodo.
Thank you, Sir, for all.

I wonder, can you hear me?
Are you still on that far shore?
Or have you left confines of earth
In peace forevermore?

The mallorn tree is tall now,
My dad's been gone a year,
And I need for both of you to know
You'll not be forgotten here.

(White Gull)

Wishes of a King

Did you know I thought of you today
When dawn's light graced the skies?
I remembered how you used to wake
With sorrow in your eyes.
I wished that I could share the pain
Of hopelessness and fear,
But you alone were chained by doom
And I just could walk near.

Did you know I thought of you today
‘Neath noon's un-shadowed glare?
I remembered how you used to warm
Your face in sunlight fair.
I wished that I could free your soul
From weight of evil night,
But you alone could bear that dark
And I just lead in light.

Did you know I thought of you today
At eve in starlight dim?
I remembered how you used to walk
Dark paths however grim.
I wished that I could take the road
Your feet were cursed to roam,
But you alone could tread that path
And I just call you home.

Do you know I look for you each day
Through palantir's clear eye?
It heals my heart to see your joy,
In Aman, where white gulls fly.
I wish you'd know I'll ne'er forget
Your sweet life sowed the field
Where white tree flowers once again
And I just reap the yield.

(White Gull)

First posted on TORn for Bilbo and Frodo's birthday celebrations 2004 by the author: TORnsib White Gull.

Geste a little more....

2004-09-17T11:55:00.000-07:00

another extract from the Ballad of Beren and Luthien

This is a spectacular moment, full of terror and excitement. During this part of the story, Beren, disguised as a wolf, slinks into the halls of Angband, to steal the silmarils from Morgoth's crown...

Morgoth sleeps after a battle of words, wit and song with Lúthien desguised as a bat. But Oh! as our hero levers one silmaril from the crown, his blade breaks and flicks at Morgoth, thus awaking him! Alas, rather than flee, Beren's greed prevails, and he tries to take another...

About him sat his awful thanes,
the Balrog-lords with fiery manes,
redhanded, mouthed with fangs of steel;
devouring wolves were crouched at heel.
And o'er the host of hell there shone
with a cold radiance, clear and wan,
the Silmarils, the gems of fate,
emprisoned in the crown of hate.

Lo! Through the grinning portals dread
sudden a shadow swooped and fled;
and Beren gasped—he lay alone,
with crawling belly on the stone:
a form bat-wingéd, silent, flew
where the huge pillared branches grew,

Then comes Carcaroth, the Red Maw, the Werewolf of werewolves who attacks Beren...

I don't know if you remember a few weeks ago I posted some information about Anglo-Saxon traditions. A warrior was expected to take on the wiles of a wolf: its bravery, its cunning, its wild nature, its hunting spirit, and even, if you were so fortunate, become so like a wolf that you were transformed into one.

I always find it fascinating that Tolkien used a wolf as his disguise here.

What grabs you about the poem? How does it compare with the story in the Silmarillion?

Just a brief comment on last weeks portion from one of the poem's biggest fans:

"The description of Lúthien has been too often and too justly praised to encourage the mere commentator in intruding".

You can read the rest of C.S. Lewis' review at the beginning of the book of "the Lays of Beleriand" if you wish to know more.

A little bit of Figwit history.

2004-09-16T07:59:00.000-07:00

Ataahua's Anniversary mathom!

Somewhere around this date three years ago, I finally took the plunge and registered on TORN and made my first post, after lurking for about a year. And what what it that finally tipped me from lurker to poster? An OT thread about the best scores in Minesweeper, if you will.

And mine's currently 146 seconds on expert, BTW.

Anyhoo, lacking any creative spurts to write something new for an anniversary mathom, I dug around in my files and found this little gem - a bit knocked around the edges and gleam's got a tad dull, mayhap, but it does mark a special time on TORN's boards: the creation of Figwit!

This was at the time when a couple of radio announcers in Christchurch, NZ, had stumbled onto the Figwit Lives! site, and then proceeded to TORN and started reading out the 'odd' nicknames of the posters here. A mild and humorous outbreak of online hassling began from us, and, well .... this little parody script came to my mind (with the made-up names of James and Chris for the radio announcers).

Enjoy!

MoreFM (James): "Well it's just gone 8.10am and we have two very special guests here by telephone. You may remember yesterday we spoke with Bret MacKenzie, a kiwi actor in The Lord of the Rings who was on-screen for all of three seconds and who now has an international following of fans. Well on the telephone now we have the two people who started this fanclub for Brett - Arwenelf and individual!"
inDUH: "That's inDUHvidual, James."
James: "Kinda a stupid name, isn't it?"
Arwenelf: "Yeah, and 'James' is sheer genius."
James: "ANYWAY, where did the name 'figwit' come from?"
inDUH: "Well, I was watching FOTR..."
James: "FOTR?"
inDUH: "Fellowship of the Ring - try to keep up James. So I was watching FOTR and at the scene of the Council of Elrond, Frodo stands up and makes this grand statement - 'I will take the Ring' - and I was thinking how great the scene was when it then flicked over to these Elves looking at Frodo, and one of them was this kiwi actor who is GORGEOUS. And my thoughts at the time were, 'Frodo is grea...WHO IS THAT!!!' F-I-G-W-I-T. Get it? And the name stuck."
Chris: "You know what I heard while you were talking? 'Geek geek geek geek FOTR geek geek geek geek Elrond geek geek geek geek I will take the Ring geek geek geek geek WHO IS THAT geek geek."
Arwenelf: "Say it loud and say it proud: We're geeks."
Chris: "So when did you last get a date? 1990?"
Arwenelf: "So when did you last see daylight, radio boy? How is that pasty white skin of yours?"
James: "So anyway: three seconds on screen is enough for you two to swoon over a guy with pointy ears?"
InDUH: "Not just us - we've managed to drum up a fanbase of hundreds for Figwit. It's a lot of fun and I'll bet that Bret never thought he'd become internationally famous for dressing as an Elf."
Chris: "Internationally famous? Among you and your three friends?"
Arwenelf: "That's funny, coming from a guy whose only friend is a Tickle Me Elmo doll."
Chris: "How'd you know about that????"
Arwenelf: "The Internet is everywhere, baby."
InDUH: "Hey James, we were wondering if you could get us in touch with Bret - we'd love to talk with him."
Chris: "You'd love to touch Bret? You're gonna stalk him now?"
James: "Actually we have a surprise for you: Arwenelf and inDUHvidual, we have Bret MacKenzie on the telephone right now! Say hello to your Figwit!"
(stunned silence)
Brett: "Uh, hello?"
(unintelligible screaming and swooning over the phone)
James: "I think they're happy to hear you, Bret."
Chris: "Or someone's murdering them with a pencil."
(snatches of "omigod omigod omigod" and "weloveyou!!!" and "bouncy bouncy thunk thunk thunk" can be heard amidst the screaming)
Bret: "Okaaay. Wow look at the time - gotta go." (hangs up)
James: "Are you girls still breathing between the screams?"
(Two 'thunks' can distinctly be heard, then absolute silence)
Chris: "Best fun I've had since James got his nose stuck in the microphone."
James: "Bite me, Elmo-boy."

**********************************
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final excerpt, by Ufthak.

For those who do not know who Figwit is: check out www.figwitlives.net (I'd recommend the Hate-Mail section if you're looking for more things to tickle your funnybone.)

First posted on TORn main message board by Ataahua some time in the early annals of LOTR movie internet fandom, and reposted for her TORniversary on 16/09/2004

Woses - and other Races in Middle Earth

2004-09-15T13:58:00.000-07:00

This could get controversial... I'm just thinking out loud here. (Mostly anyway) and I will say as a disclaimer something that I should put at the beginning of all my posts really. LOL. And that is that I can often express views that are not actually my own, just for the sake of exploring the subject to it's full extent. I do *not* think that Tolkien was racist. I'll say that now! But I do think that the subject is worth exploring, for the sake of understanding those who believe he is, and for ourselves to learn more about the books we love.

And with that said, let's get on.

Woses

This post was inspired by Gramma's BS this morning.

The Woses fascinate me. I suppose because they are mysterious, and one of the things that drew me to Archaeology in the first place was the chance to explore the mysteries of our ancestors and the way they lived.

I don't know if Tolkien was a subscriber to Creationism or Evolutionism.. (or neither!) But from his description of the Woses, and other stuff that he says about the different kinds of men, there is a hint of Victorian Evolution Theory in his work.

Many in the 19th/early 20th C believed that man's brain was constantly expanding/evolving, and that earlier man (I'm not talking about other species of hominid ancestors but actual Homo Sapiens Sapiens like us) was less man-like in all its ways than we are.

The World of Middle Earth, encyclopedia describes the different races in steps like this:

The Woses, communicating by drum beat, and living so in tune with the wild that they are seen as ghosts by those men who have since forgotten how to do the same, fit into the catagory of stone-age men. (The Dunlendings and other kinds were also of this early kind though of a more advanced type then Woses, say mesolithic or even Bronze-Age). Then you have the Breelanders and Beornings. And then the Eorlingas, taller and more 'noble' yet still seeing glory in battle.
And then the great men of Numenor such as Aragorn and the men of Gondor and Arnor, who have a longer life as well as a mind tuned more to the things of science and literature than to war.

I can see where the writer of the encyclopoedia got his interpretation from. No one could doubt that the men of Rohan find glory in battle..

At that sound the bent shape of the king sprang suddenly erect. Tall and proud he seemed again; and rising in his stirrups he cried in a loud voice, more clear than any there had ever heard a mortal man achieve before:

Arise, arise Riders of Theoden!
Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter!
spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered,
a sword-day, a red-day, ere the sun rises!
Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!

With that he seized a great horn from Guthlaf his banner-bearer, and he blew such a blast upon it that it burst asunder. And straightway all the horns in the host were lifted up in music, and the blowing of the horns of Rohan in that hour was like a storm upon the plain and a thunder in the mountains.

and that the men of Numenor seek higher things than that.

"War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend: the city of the Men of Numenor; and I would have her loved for her memory, her ancientry, her beauty and her present wisdom. Not feared, save as men may fear the dignity of a man, old and wise." Faramir - the window to the west TTT

But I don't think that Tolkien was meaning to say that the Woses were any less intelligent than the Gondorians/Eorlingas. Far from it, when Ghan-buri-Ghan meets Theoden, we see that though he is not so good at Westron (often - as any tourist in a foreign land will know from experience - bad language is confused for bad intelligence) he is far more clued up about what is going on than Theoden is.

Still, I've often wondered what Tolkien meant exactly by giving different races different levels of greatness...
I know some who would see that as racism, but even if Tolkien was saying there were different levels of man (and I do not really think he was), I am sure it wasn't racism. It was just the generally held view at the time because of limited understanding of Evolution. Even now Archaeologists battle to demonstrate that the earliest civilizations (eg the builders of Stone Henge) were just as intelligent and able as we are in the 21st century. For example an article appeared in the Telegraph last saturday beginning with:

"[many] Archaeologists assume a smooth progression in human development from primitive hunter-gatherers to sophisticated city dwellers. But this cosy theory has been undermined by the work of [amongst others] a professor of engineering."

So if that is still a struggle now, we can hardly object to earlier generations mistakenly believing the same thing as many still do today.

anyhoo...

The Woses built amazingly beautiful stone statues at Dunharrow (or at least the impression is given that they were the ones involved in building them). ""

That gives the same impression of longevity in the land as you get in Western Europe where such decorated standing stones are commonly found. And again, until very recently it was believed that each new culture was a wave of immigration - or invasion - from another land. That still may be true, but some are suggesting it was far more complicated than that.

One of the things I like about Tolkien's story is the hints of what came before that are scattered all over it. Think of the remains of the watchtower at Weathertop, or the great statue of a Gondorian king whose head, wreathed in flowers gives Frodo such joy at the crossroads to Minas Morgul.

But as in LOTR - where the Numenorians became the Gondorians, and before that were the Edain the earliest men (see bottom) - there is a sense that the more recent things are just a continuing of that which came before.

- - - - - - - - - -

On a slight aside (if you'll pardon me) as an example of how the 'cultural evolution' theory is changing, the article I mentioned describes something wonderful. At Newgrange in Ireland is a circular structure built about 1000 years before Egypts great pyramid, predating any city in western Europe by about 2000 years. A single shaft was carefully constructed there so that the light of Venus would penetrate into the central chamber once every eight years giving the engineers who designed it a calendar so accurate that it can be beaten today only by the use of atomic clocks.

Not only that, but there has recently been discovered a 'Megalithic Yard' (mega-lithic means 'big stones') that is a measured length used in building stone age structures that seems to be the same in all the sites throughout Europe. It is equal to 82.96656cm. It is believed that it was measured using a pendulum (though it was beyond me how you converted time in to distance... I'm sure the book the article was based on tells you nicely). You didn't have to count the number of pendulum swings, you just had to recite a poem say to it.

Remember those poems you used in the playground? "Eeny meeny miny mo, catch a baby by the toe, if it squeels let it go, eeny meeny miny mo." Well, it is now believed that that particular poem - at least the eeny meeny miny mo bit, is a left-over from one of the earliest forms of language in the world. (awesome huh?)

But anyway, someone had the bright idea of taking a tenth of a megalithic yard, and making a cube out of it (just like we make a litre by making a cube of 10cm x 10 x10). And found that the volume they ended up with was equal to 1.005 pints! In fact, comparing it to earlier measurements of pints gets even more accurate results. Henry VII (1485-1509) pint was closer to the megalithic pint than it was to the modern one - with a difference less than on part per 1,000. Not only that, but the pint in Elizabethan times in 1601 was identical to the Megalithic one.

Then they checked it against other measurements from around the world. The Spanish vara is very close to a megalithic yard. 1,000 Japanese shakus fit 366 megalithic yards with an accuracy of 99.8%. Ancient Egypt's standard measurement was the "Royal Cubit" and the Great Pyramid was built using a measuring wheel that had a circumference of one Mesalithic Yard, and a diameter that was half a royal cubit. And in the Indus Valley (in India), the earliest form of measurement was a gaz which is as close to a megalithic yard as to make no difference..

Isn't that amazing?!

- - - - - - - - -

back to Tolkien then..

So, we have the Woses, the original inhabitants, then in come the Dunlendings - perhaps - who are then driven out by the arrival of the men of Rohan and the war that took place at that time. Of course the men of Numenor (who became Gondor and Arnor) had already arrived, but they entered from outside and were seen as closer to elves. Indeed there is a lovely passage in the Silmarillion, if ONLY I could remember where, which says something like 'in those days men and elves were much alike'

Ahh I have found it!

"In those days Elves and Men were of like stature and strength of body, but Elves had greater wisdom, and skill and beauty; and those who had dwelt in Valinor and looked upon the Powers as much surpassed the Dark Elves in these things as they in turn surpassed the people of mortal race...[and they] were allies and held themselves akin, and there were some among Men that learned the wisdom of the Eldar, and became great and valiant among the captains of the Noldor. And in the glory and beauty of the Elves, and in their fate, full share had the offspring of elf and mortal."

To me that says that men were on a parr with the dark elves who had not moved westward following the call of the Valar, and those who became the men of Numenor became greater still through drawing close to the Noldor - the High Elves. And all men, Woses to Gondorians are all descended from the same Men who first rose as the Second Children of Eru.

So here is the answer. Tolkien isn't saying that different men are on different levels. He is saying that man has it in him to become great, as those who drew near to the Noldor did. They grew apart from their fellow men through their deeds, not through an intrinsic superiority. That is a very suitable message for a Myth. Which indeed is what this whole Middle-earth saga is. We can all become greater than we are.

And no one could doubt that Tolkien felt the glory of the ride of the Rohirrim, or that the reader too is stirred and thinks of great things as they read it. Indeed it is one of my personal favourite passages! Their glory in battle is a good thing, not an inferior thing, even though he does suggest that it is better for men to hold on to what they fight for, rather than revel in the fighting itself.

I once met a lady who said that the more she delved into LOTR the more concerned she became of its racist content, and though she would still read it to her children, there were passages that she believed she would have to sit down and explain to them, or even renounce. This made me a little sad, because I was sure that she was seeing something that isn't there. Now I know that if she had delved deeper, she would have seen that the racist concept was purely superficial and due to bad interpretation..

Let me leave you with what Ghan-buri-ghan says on the matter.

"Wild Men are wild, free, but not children,' he answered. 'I am great headman, Ghan-buri-Ghan. I count many things: stars in sky, leaves on trees, men in the dark. You have a score of scores counted ten times and five. They have more. Big fight, and who will win?'"

And from what we know of Tolkien's love of trees, leaves, and stars.. Indeed from his various writings we could say that he loved these more than anything else. So we see here that he admired the Wild Men perhaps even more than any other, because they could count what others see as un-numberable.

Beren and Lúthien

2004-09-10T11:48:00.000-07:00

Because it's what we're all here for really..

A very different kind of Tolkien-Zen moment.

My friend just posted this little taster on his Blog. Oxford Inklings He says it contains his all-time favourite quote of the 20th Century. That's quite a claim. Here is what he says about it:

The Geste of Beren and Lúthien.

This wonderful epic poem is the core work in the Tolkien corpus. It may be read in it's entirety in "The Lays of Beleriand" available in Hard or Paperback at any bookshop. Why the core work? On the headstone of the Tolkien grave at Wolvercote are two words from his whole life's work: "Beren & Lúthien".

"A king there was in days of old:
ere Men yet walked upon the mould
his power was reared in cavern's shade,
his hand was over glen and glade.
His shields were shining as the moon,
his lances keen of steel were hewn,
of silver grey his crown was wrought,
the starlight in his banners caught;
and silver thrilled his trumpets long
beneath the stars in challenge strong;
enchantment did his realm enfold,
where might and glory, wealth untold,
he wielded from his ivory throne
in many-pillared halls of stone.
There beryl, pearl, and opal pale,
and metal wrought like fishes' mail,
buckler and corslet, axe and sword,
and gleaming spears were laid in hoard —
all these he had and loved them less
than a maiden once in Elfinesse;
for fairer than are born to Men
a daughter had he, Lúthien."

The first 22 lines (of 4,223) of The Geste of Beren and Lúthien
by J.R.R. Tolkien

Well I just thought it might be nice to ponder it and compare it to other slices of epic poetry or prose in Tolkien's works. The silver trumpets theme is appearing again. And it reminds me a lot of the dream Frodo had about a man with an emerald star on his forehead. And the poem that Sam recites about Gil-Galad. (Or maybe the tale that Strider tells them in the wild on Weathertop).

What do you notice about it? And what interests you?

Why is it my friend's favourite quote? In his own words:

Lúthien... can only be a thing of beauty to me. "A daughter had he, Lúthien"... the greatest line in English Literature. (I know, I have a daughter)!

Don't know why, but that touched my heart!

An explosive Tolkien Trivia Time

2004-09-08T09:20:00.000-07:00

Well hello people, here I am back from holiday (that's Vacation to you American types). And what is the first thing on my mind? Well, apart from scrolling through all the posts of the past two weeks to sample Gramma's Today In Middle-Earths - boy do I love my BS! - it is of course, our old friend:

Tolkien Trivia Time

(For those of you unfamiliar woth T.T.T. where have you been?! hehe. Don't worry, it's fairly self explanitory. If you get to the end of this post and still have no clue what one is, you are welcome to accost me with a rather large soggy kipper. Fair do's?)

Todays T.T.T is somewhat erm.. controversial. I hope you don't mind, but I am in a mischievous mood today!

The Bridge of Khazad-Dum - and other Classical Nasties

Any of you heard of a wonderful hero called Horatio? No, I'm not talking about the gentle, quiet philosopher friend of Hamlet (he of "Alas poor Yoric, I knew him Horatio" fame). I am talking about someone even more antiquated.. Let me take you on a magical mystery tour back to the yellowed mists of Ancient Rome.

Thomas Babington Macaulay - a 19th Century eccentric - wrote an epic series of poems called Lays of Ancient Rome full of Classical passion and the sort of military campaigns that stirred the blood of every young schoolboy in the 1900s: no doubt inspiring their playground games and, in the case of a certain would-be professor, an aweful lot more!

Lars Porsena of Clusium
By the nine gods he swore,
That the great house of Tarquin
Should suffer wrongs no more.
By the nine gods he swore it,
And named a trysting day,
And bade his messangers ride forth,
East and west and south and north
To summon his array.

Very exciting isn't it. Lars Porsena was the evil baddie of early Roman history. He was an Etruscan General who threatened the fledgling Roman city before the empire was more than a wee twinkle in the Senate's eye.. fighting, sacking and plundering his way all the way to the shores of the Tiber (the river beside which Rome was built). His name filled every Roman heart with dread in much the same way that Hannibal would do centuries later, or Hitler or Osama Bin Laden does today. He was the Bogeyman of the 6th Century BC.

Are we feeling suitable shudders and the suchlike? No?

Well let me expand it a little more for you.

This man, this evil wicked Etruscan plunderer may well have been; almost certainly will have been; part of the inspiration for another literary baddie: see if you can guess who.

Back to the battle:

As the Great Prize - the Eternal City itself - lay all but defenceless before them, the battle hardened troops gazed across to the river anticipating more tasty slaughter and ruin. But a quick-thinking Roman Consul had other ideas. He had spied a way to save his people.

The plan was simple. The only bridge over the Tiber was barely wide enough for one man to pass at a time.

So, a handful of men could hold the bridge long enough for it to be cut away beneath them. As these valiant soldiers plunged to a watery death, they would have the consolation of knowing that they had fulfilled every Roman mother's deepest desire for her son: that he would give his life to save his Nation.

However, so tough and frightening was the challenge - remember the Etruscans had already sacked every town and city for miles around - that at first only one man was brave enough to accept it.

Horatio.

And as he ran foreward, in a mirror of a later story we all know so well, two others cried out that he would not stand alone, and ran to add their swords to the flash of his own.

It was this 'dauntless three' who alone faced the Etruscan host as it approached the bridge. It was these three who slew the ablest champions that Lars Porsena could throw at them.

As the bridge started to fall, Horatio's two companions made it back to shore as he covered the retreat. For him, there was no escape. Valiantly out in front, he could do nothing except prepare to meet his end. Exhausted, wounded, and weighed down with armour, Horatio plunged beneath the surface of the Tiber.

A stunned calm fell upon Rome and her enemies:

No sound of joy or sorrow,
Was heard from either bank;
But friends and foes in dumb surprise,
With parted lips and straining eyes,
Stood gazing where he sank;

but wait!

...And when above the surges,
They saw his crest appear,
All Rome sent forth a rapturous cry,
And even the ranks of Tuscany
Could scarce forbear to cheer.

Yes! Horatio lives! Swimming back to the Roman shore, his feat of daring and courage momentarily united the warring sides in admiration and awe.

Who knows how long it was before the invaders' sentimental feelings gave way to bitterness? But what is clear is this:

Horatio's courage saved Rome.

According to Macaulay, to immortalize the event, 'they made a molten image,/ And set it up on high, / And there it stands unto this day / To witness if I lie.'

Woohoo.

Macaulay drew his great poem not from his admittedly fertile imagination, but from the Roman 'Histories' themselves.

But, look around the ruins of Rome today, and you will search in vain for the statue of Horatio...

Detailed and reliable chronicles of the sixth century BC, describe how the Etruscan armies swept irresistibly upon Rome and overwhelmed it. Within hours, those inhabitants of Rome who survived the onslaught were forming long, miserable columns of refugees, leaving their 'eternal' city. Lars Porsena's name is scattered all over these documents. But what of Horatio?

Sadly, there is nothing. The myth of his epic stand on the bridge over the Tiber was invented after Rome had become a great Empire when it was decided they needed a past of sufficient grandure to match their current status.

By the first century AD Romans were too proud, and too intoxicated with their new weath and power to ever believe that a mere Etruscan had sacked their precious Rome!

The Horatio story, you see, reflects not history, but how a later generation of Romans needed to see their ancestors.

in the play I, Claudius two Roman Historians, Livy and Pollio argue over the Horatio story. Debating what History is, and what it should be used for. Livy claims that the role of history is 'not the uncovering of the Truth, but it is of halting the moral decline by providing idealised role models to the young and of dignifying the present through association with a glorious past.'

Pollio however, manages to get Claudius' support for the rival view that the historian's ultimate duty is to the Truth.

So which is the 'Truth' in our case? Put yourself in Middle-Earth for the moment. Did Frodo when writing his part of the Red Book, change the events in Moria from hapless defeat, followed by a retreat to the relative safety of Lothlorien? Did others who later copied out the original book embellish the story, finding it impossible to believe that with such a Hobbit-legend as Gandalf with them the Fellowship could ever have been defeated? Or has the original story come down to us in the way it 'actually' happened?

Either way, one thing is clear, in his school-time studies of Classical poetry and history, Tolkien was at least in part inspired by the valiant Horatio and his 'last stand' on the bridge of the Tiber. I wonder how he felt when, in later life, archaeologists discovered that Macaulay's poem was not true to the events?

- Originally posted on TORn main message board on Wednesday, 8/9/2004 at 15:48 by Amatire

Hares, Chaucher, and Tolkien Trivia

2004-09-08T06:29:00.000-07:00

I'm off on vacation today, but I was so fascinated by what I was reading last night, that I dreamt all night about posting a T.T.T about it!

So here it is:

Michel Delving.

There are two Delvings in the Shire. Little Delving and Michel Delving. Michel - pronounced Mickle not Michael - is a fascinating word IMHO. It is so typically Middle-English. But more on that later...

As with many placenames in the UK, there is a pattern that Tolkien has decided to follow.

Near Salisbury plain and Stone Henge, there is a glorious collection of villages that always tickle my funnybone.

-Upper Wallop
-Middle Wallop
-Nether Wallop -(which is an Army Air Corps base, any budding terrorists in our ranks might like to know.. *winks*)

There are some familiarly Hobbitish names, like Nobottle, Stank End, Maggot's End, Wetwang, Compton Pauncefoot, and some that match almost exactly, like Chetwood, Clee, Bree, Archet, Bagginswood, Buckland, in the UK and many more. Just showing how much Tolkien really did delve into English history for that distinctly Shire-ish feel.

(Incidentally, if you want a giggle, there is a fabulous pair of websites here and here chronicling some of the wierdest and funniest placenames in the UK).

But he also used different types of placenames for different places. Chetwood, Archet and Bree for example are both derived from Ancient Briton - Celtic to you and me. Showing that the Hobbits of the area around Bree were earlier settlers than the Hobbits of the Shire. This fits with the history that we know of Hobbits, because they travelled west from beyond the misty mountains (where Smeagol dwelt) towards the sea by incriments every few hundred years. The last known slide westward of this type of course is Elanor Gardner and Fastred settling on the Tower Hills at "Undertowers" (a typically modern English name, which reflects in many ways the names given to places in America and Australia and other colonies inhabited by the English).

But I digress...

What then is so interesting to me about Michel? Is it a humerous name? Well, no not really. But it always piques my attention because it is such a rare Middle-English word. Very few people know what it means, or have ever heard it outside a placename context.

Here the fact that it is twinned with Little Delving should give some clue as to its meaning. (Delving of course is fairly self-explanatory. To Delve being 'to dig', and the suffix -ing is an Old English word ending that meant "People of" or "family of" and was adopted as a general adjective ending later on).

Michel means "a batch, a handful of, or a lot of something, or a great deal of something" It seems to have the connotations of being a lot of little things..

It is found in a very ancient English saying that my mother and grandmother loved to quote at me:

"Many a Michel (Or Mickle) macks a Muchel (or Mochel)"

Which means: "Many little things put together make a big/large thing."

And it is used to intice people to take small steps towards a big goal.

Michel Delving therefore is a large collection of small hobbit holes. (You will also see this name at Mickleburg which means Great City and is a mannish rendering of the name Belegost which was one of the Dwarf Cities in the Blue Mountains. In that case, Mickle is a rendering of Muchel which means "great" not Michel. But the two words seem to have been interchangable by Chaucer's time. The Encyclopedia of Arda has Michel translated as Muchel or 'great' But that is not what the word originally meant, although it is too close to it to split hairs over - and it sits nicely with the pairing together of Little and Michel Delvings).

That isn't the only reason why it always makes my ears prick up when I hear it. It is also found in an interesting folk song (one of very few that England has managed to keep hold of that posess mythologies from the Anglo-Saxon times). The song is about a Hare, and touches on the subject of Hare Coursing, which has been practiced since the Bronze Age in Britain.

Two hounds would be set on a Hare and the spectators watch to see who runs out of steam first. Contrary to popular belief it isn't a method of catching hares, in fact it is considered a loss if the hare does not manage to escape unscathed - although the dog that caught it is no doubt rewarded for his agility. It seems that they simply found it fascinating to watch these three lean animals ducking and diving each other and changing course in mid-run.

The song is more recently connected with witches or wise women, and it denotes the Anglo Saxon concept of people taking on the properties of animals or even turning into one. A man would wish to take on the ways of a Wolf, or a Bear (remember Beorn in the Hobbit?) And a Woman's aim was to take on the ways of a Hare. (Perhaps the concept of mad march hares - they really do act very strangely in the breeding season - was seen to relate to a woman's cycle and fertility?).

I am sorry to say that I have been unable to unearth the exact lyrics for the song. But to show how old and commonly known the song once was, - and the saying - you can find a part of it in the Wife of Bath's Prologue in Chaucer's Cantabury tales, written in Middle English.

"Now wol I dye, I may no lenger speke. --
But atte laste, with muchel care and wo,
We fille acorded by us selven two"

(I said to him)
"Now will I die, I will no longer speak",
But at last, with much worry and grief, We came to an agreement"

The original song lyrics were an enchantment to turn a woman into a hare, and to warn the persuing man that he shall not catch her. In many ways it was a courting song. They go something like this:

"But so an you chase me,
Shall I vanish from thee,
I'll take upon the guise of hare,
and shall escape with michel care,
I'll take upon the guise of hare,
And shall escape with michel care."

Thus, whenever I see Michel Delving, I always think of hares....

Well, that might not have been so exciting to others of you, but consider this. Tolkien spent much of his time working on a way to provide a mythology for England to replace the one we lost. So much of Anglo-saxon tradition was wiped out with the Norman invasion in 1066. But in many places little bits of it remain, and the Hare Coursing song is one such fragment. I am sure Tolkien would be pleased to know that it is still remembered through his work.

- Originally posted on TheOneRing.net Main Discussion Board on Saturday, 21/8/2004 at 12:47 by Amatire